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India passes tough new law for serious juvenile crimes

24 points by chdir 11y ago

FussyZeus 11y ago
All was pretty straightforward until I got to acid attacks. Acid attacks? I'm assuming like, flinging it into a victim's face or something? That's just weird. Edit: Not implying that rape or murder are "normal" but I would say they're more common...
- mtgx 11y ago
  Yes, they throw it on people's faces to ruin them for life.
- mkaziz 11y ago
  It's pretty common in that part of the world, unfortunately.
jsudhams 11y ago
I understand where parents of victim are coming from adn most probably take the same stance of more harsh paunishment for these crimes. But entirely reducing the age for juvenile some how does not sound right. The reasons are 1. While the kids are more clever now a days I see not much done to to improve morality in education -- Not even as much as physical education periods 2. Internet in hand means lots of wrong things show as right, i personally know adults who beleive the news or forwarded news like items in WhatsApp is right (99% of them are wrong) and actual news website/new watching is redcuing close to zero with youngsters 3. No vent out for youngsters i.e. not enough parks, parents pushing youngsters to money - no matter what. i.e. If you tell your kid it is ok to cheat govt or give bribe now-a-days and say that eve teasing is bad then they take either both bad (if they are intelligent) or both ok. 4. There is a serious need for parent to know and teach kids about internet - about 60% parents know kids can watch nasty stuff on internet but they just dont know how bad it is and how to educate kid on what is right and what is wrong, i would even encourage indian telecom providers take ownership of teaching this to parents and kids
adityab 11y ago
Many people wanted the juvenile to be retried retroactively as an adult, "because this case is special". India should: 1. Not pass knee-jerk laws, it takes a long time to undo the damage. 2. Do away with the death penalty. Mobs of 'concerned citizens' always turn into sadistic assholes when they know their anger is righteous. But once the punishment of death is off the table, there would be one less way to cause serious damage. You should see how the discourse in India has become, with good people suggesting more and more creative ways of torturing the rapists; disembowelment, chemical castration, and reversed re-enactment of the original rape have all been suggested. A national exercise in revenge is sickening. Good, kind people braying for blood is sickening.
- RavKtm 11y ago
  This is no knee jerk reaction, it was tabled a good two years ago, the Lok Sabha had already passed the bill and today the Rajya Sabha. Though it might appear as a brash move to lower the age, the clause of being under age has been misused by organized crime as the least punishment was applicable. Creative suggestions and covering those in detail is a media propaganda to keep the minutes running on their 24hr news channels.
  - adityab 11y ago
    the clause of being under age has been misused by organized crime as the least punishment was applicable And should we change our morals and flush away decades of cultivated ethics about juvenile justice because organized crime groups recruit underage people? Creative suggestions and covering those in detail is a media propaganda Here's an MP from the upper house of parliament, saying: "Hands and legs of the males who commit rapes should be broken. A law for this should be enacted in this House." [1] That's not propaganda. This is happening openly - because this time it's okay for people to show their worst sides. [1]: http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-make-law-to-break-hands-and-legs-of-rapists-demands-ramdas-athawale-2064685 http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-make-law-to-break-hands...
  - eager_noob 11y ago
    If the real problem is misuse of clause of being underage by organized criminals, then laws against organized crime and even more importantly it seems in India's case the infrastructure to prosecute the guilty should be strengthened. Toughening the laws for under aged does not seem the appropriate response in that case.
_____s 11y ago
A very poor precedent has been set, unfortunately.
prateek_mir 11y ago
The text on the placard that the girl is holding in the first picture of the article is exactly why more debate was needed on the issue.
kbart 11y ago
Actually, I agree with such changes. It's not like India is now going to hang children for petty crimes, the change will only affect teens of 16-18 years old that committed really serious crimes (i.e. murder, rape). Seriously, do you think 3 years of imprisonment for brutal murder and gang rape(0) is adequate? In my point of view, a person capable of such actions (despite their age) is worth the maximum sentence. 0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Delhi_gang_rape https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Delhi_gang_rape
- mootothemax 11y ago
  >In my point of view, a person capable of such actions (despite their age) is worth the maximum sentence. So what is your age limit? If 16, why not 15? And if 15, why not 12, or 10, or 7, or 5? The only thing we can say with any certainty is that the Victorians tried and tested the hang-em-high method of crime reduction, with less than stellar results to show for it.
  - drzaiusapelord 11y ago
    >So what is your age limit? If 16, why not 15? And if 15, why not 12, or 10, or 7, or 5? This seems necessarily goading. Why does 18 magically make someone an adult? If anything, we've swung way too far to the left on this issue. A 14 or 15 old person is mature enough to understand complex moral issues. At 15 I drove a 6,000lbs death machine car and had a part time job on top of school. The idea that I didn't understand rape or murder was wrong at that age is asinine. I'd say high school age is fair game for serious prison time for serious offenses. Here in Chicago a lot of our shooters are 15-17. These aren't innocent children, but fairly serious criminals with nothing but a life of crime ahead of them. Catching them early has potential for betterment compared to leaving them in the loving arms of the gang system and more or less guaranteeing the further victimization of others.
    - mootothemax 11y ago
      >A 14 or 15 old person is mature enough to understand complex moral issues. You're proposing hanging 14 and 15-year-olds? Purely and genuinely because I'm curious: at what age would you say "stop, they're too young to hang"? >Catching them early has potential for betterment... But once they've crossed a line, despite having another 40-50 years of life in front of them, that's it? Not any chance of trying to turn them into contributing, worthwhile members of society?
Lawtonfogle 11y ago
Cool. Adult responsibilities with child rights. Older teens need to just be treated as adults with respect to both.

24 points by chdir 11y ago

All was pretty straightforward until I got to acid attacks. Acid attacks? I'm assuming like, flinging it into a victim's face or something? That's just weird. Edit: Not implying that rape or murder are "normal" but I would say they're more common...

mtgx 11y ago
Yes, they throw it on people's faces to ruin them for life.
mkaziz 11y ago
It's pretty common in that part of the world, unfortunately.

jsudhams 11y ago

I understand where parents of victim are coming from adn most probably take the same stance of more harsh paunishment for these crimes. But entirely reducing the age for juvenile some how does not sound right. The reasons are 1. While the kids are more clever now a days I see not much done to to improve morality in education -- Not even as much as physical education periods 2. Internet in hand means lots of wrong things show as right, i personally know adults who beleive the news or forwarded news like items in WhatsApp is right (99% of them are wrong) and actual news website/new watching is redcuing close to zero with youngsters 3. No vent out for youngsters i.e. not enough parks, parents pushing youngsters to money - no matter what. i.e. If you tell your kid it is ok to cheat govt or give bribe now-a-days and say that eve teasing is bad then they take either both bad (if they are intelligent) or both ok. 4. There is a serious need for parent to know and teach kids about internet - about 60% parents know kids can watch nasty stuff on internet but they just dont know how bad it is and how to educate kid on what is right and what is wrong, i would even encourage indian telecom providers take ownership of teaching this to parents and kids

adityab 11y ago

Many people wanted the juvenile to be retried retroactively as an adult, "because this case is special". India should: 1. Not pass knee-jerk laws, it takes a long time to undo the damage. 2. Do away with the death penalty. Mobs of 'concerned citizens' always turn into sadistic assholes when they know their anger is righteous. But once the punishment of death is off the table, there would be one less way to cause serious damage. You should see how the discourse in India has become, with good people suggesting more and more creative ways of torturing the rapists; disembowelment, chemical castration, and reversed re-enactment of the original rape have all been suggested. A national exercise in revenge is sickening. Good, kind people braying for blood is sickening.

RavKtm 11y ago
This is no knee jerk reaction, it was tabled a good two years ago, the Lok Sabha had already passed the bill and today the Rajya Sabha. Though it might appear as a brash move to lower the age, the clause of being under age has been misused by organized crime as the least punishment was applicable. Creative suggestions and covering those in detail is a media propaganda to keep the minutes running on their 24hr news channels.
- adityab 11y ago
  the clause of being under age has been misused by organized crime as the least punishment was applicable And should we change our morals and flush away decades of cultivated ethics about juvenile justice because organized crime groups recruit underage people? Creative suggestions and covering those in detail is a media propaganda Here's an MP from the upper house of parliament, saying: "Hands and legs of the males who commit rapes should be broken. A law for this should be enacted in this House." [1] That's not propaganda. This is happening openly - because this time it's okay for people to show their worst sides. [1]: http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-make-law-to-break-hands-and-legs-of-rapists-demands-ramdas-athawale-2064685 http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-make-law-to-break-hands...
- eager_noob 11y ago
  If the real problem is misuse of clause of being underage by organized criminals, then laws against organized crime and even more importantly it seems in India's case the infrastructure to prosecute the guilty should be strengthened. Toughening the laws for under aged does not seem the appropriate response in that case.

_____s 11y ago

A very poor precedent has been set, unfortunately.

prateek_mir 11y ago

The text on the placard that the girl is holding in the first picture of the article is exactly why more debate was needed on the issue.

kbart 11y ago

Actually, I agree with such changes. It's not like India is now going to hang children for petty crimes, the change will only affect teens of 16-18 years old that committed really serious crimes (i.e. murder, rape). Seriously, do you think 3 years of imprisonment for brutal murder and gang rape(0) is adequate? In my point of view, a person capable of such actions (despite their age) is worth the maximum sentence. 0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Delhi_gang_rape https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Delhi_gang_rape

mootothemax 11y ago
>In my point of view, a person capable of such actions (despite their age) is worth the maximum sentence. So what is your age limit? If 16, why not 15? And if 15, why not 12, or 10, or 7, or 5? The only thing we can say with any certainty is that the Victorians tried and tested the hang-em-high method of crime reduction, with less than stellar results to show for it.
- drzaiusapelord 11y ago
  >So what is your age limit? If 16, why not 15? And if 15, why not 12, or 10, or 7, or 5? This seems necessarily goading. Why does 18 magically make someone an adult? If anything, we've swung way too far to the left on this issue. A 14 or 15 old person is mature enough to understand complex moral issues. At 15 I drove a 6,000lbs death machine car and had a part time job on top of school. The idea that I didn't understand rape or murder was wrong at that age is asinine. I'd say high school age is fair game for serious prison time for serious offenses. Here in Chicago a lot of our shooters are 15-17. These aren't innocent children, but fairly serious criminals with nothing but a life of crime ahead of them. Catching them early has potential for betterment compared to leaving them in the loving arms of the gang system and more or less guaranteeing the further victimization of others.
  - mootothemax 11y ago
    >A 14 or 15 old person is mature enough to understand complex moral issues. You're proposing hanging 14 and 15-year-olds? Purely and genuinely because I'm curious: at what age would you say "stop, they're too young to hang"? >Catching them early has potential for betterment... But once they've crossed a line, despite having another 40-50 years of life in front of them, that's it? Not any chance of trying to turn them into contributing, worthwhile members of society?

Lawtonfogle 11y ago

Cool. Adult responsibilities with child rights. Older teens need to just be treated as adults with respect to both.