4 ms·

I began my official apprenticeship at age 28. My master physically beat me, which is a common practice. It’s corporal discipline. Oo This sounds eerily like

by zzalpha 11y ago

I began my official apprenticeship at age 28. My master physically beat me, which is a common practice. It’s corporal discipline. Oo This sounds eerily like a hazing. The author even says things like "When a white sushi chef says, 'I would work there, but it was too demanding,' then I say you are definitely too weak and we are not cut from the same cloth", as though enduring verbal and physical abuse is a sign of honour and hard work rather than dysfunction.

horsecaptin 11y ago
I think by "too demanding", they mean having to wash rice for years before having to wash fish for years.
s986s 11y ago
Culture and economics are strange. Is hazing the result of demanding discipline for high quality popular products? Or do popular products result in hazing since supply is bigger than demand? What we can definitely say is sushi has become american standard and that without Japanese chefs, quality sushi would not always be available. Something I think about is sports. Winning doesnt always involve fun, sometimes its discipline, practicing endlessly and ensuring each member plays their part properly instead of give excuses and act solo. Is hazing the problem? Or is not seeing hazings place in the world? Do we hate discipline ir just discipline at extremes? Why do we hit dogs to stop them from pooping inside and give them treets for listening to a name? I think there is grey area
- kiiski 11y ago
  You hit dogs to stop them pooping inside? I don't think there's anything grey about that...
  - s986s 11y ago
    How do you train dogs? How doglike are humans? At what point is explaination not enough to discipline a person? Repetition becomes ignored? The appearence of weakness gives room for rebellion? You speak from a moral high ground but i really think these questions are worth exploring
    - kiiski 11y ago
      > How do you train dogs? By rewarding correct behaviour. Those questions have already been explored, and contemporary experts pretty much agree that punishing, especially physically beating, is counterproductive. Both for dogs and humans.
      - s986s 11y ago
        Well who am i to doubt? I have never attempted contemporary tactics nor seen them in action. What i have seen is what has worked in the past because we are still animals (including myself) despite all the incredible tools and knowledge we have. Do you have use cases? I think this an incredible thing to explore. I can tell you think im insensitive. I appreciate you punishing my behaviour with stern talking. Clearly even you see the benefit
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
im2w1l 11y ago
One of the less nice aspects of East Asian cultures. It's quite interesting how it seems to bypass many otherwise intelligent people's woo detectors. When I was 14 I had a smart European teacher, who was into zen buddhism. He told of how people were beaten with sticks when they meditated to improve focus or posture or whatever.
SunShiranui 11y ago
It seems like the author has done quite a lot of reframing to rationalize and justify what he's been through. To me, that sounds horrible, and I doubt I would allow anyone to behave like that with me, tradition or not.

by zzalpha 11y ago

horsecaptin 11y ago

I think by "too demanding", they mean having to wash rice for years before having to wash fish for years.

s986s 11y ago

Culture and economics are strange. Is hazing the result of demanding discipline for high quality popular products? Or do popular products result in hazing since supply is bigger than demand? What we can definitely say is sushi has become american standard and that without Japanese chefs, quality sushi would not always be available. Something I think about is sports. Winning doesnt always involve fun, sometimes its discipline, practicing endlessly and ensuring each member plays their part properly instead of give excuses and act solo. Is hazing the problem? Or is not seeing hazings place in the world? Do we hate discipline ir just discipline at extremes? Why do we hit dogs to stop them from pooping inside and give them treets for listening to a name? I think there is grey area

kiiski 11y ago
You hit dogs to stop them pooping inside? I don't think there's anything grey about that...
- s986s 11y ago
  How do you train dogs? How doglike are humans? At what point is explaination not enough to discipline a person? Repetition becomes ignored? The appearence of weakness gives room for rebellion? You speak from a moral high ground but i really think these questions are worth exploring
  - kiiski 11y ago
    > How do you train dogs? By rewarding correct behaviour. Those questions have already been explored, and contemporary experts pretty much agree that punishing, especially physically beating, is counterproductive. Both for dogs and humans.
    - s986s 11y ago
      Well who am i to doubt? I have never attempted contemporary tactics nor seen them in action. What i have seen is what has worked in the past because we are still animals (including myself) despite all the incredible tools and knowledge we have. Do you have use cases? I think this an incredible thing to explore. I can tell you think im insensitive. I appreciate you punishing my behaviour with stern talking. Clearly even you see the benefit

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

im2w1l 11y ago

One of the less nice aspects of East Asian cultures. It's quite interesting how it seems to bypass many otherwise intelligent people's woo detectors. When I was 14 I had a smart European teacher, who was into zen buddhism. He told of how people were beaten with sticks when they meditated to improve focus or posture or whatever.

SunShiranui 11y ago

It seems like the author has done quite a lot of reframing to rationalize and justify what he's been through. To me, that sounds horrible, and I doubt I would allow anyone to behave like that with me, tradition or not.