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Obviously it's just as despicable to say that the Gulags never happened. It's not much of an issue though in Germany / Europe, no one's really claiming that, p

by hussong 11y ago

Obviously it's just as despicable to say that the Gulags never happened. It's not much of an issue though in Germany / Europe, no one's really claiming that, probably since it wouldn't feed into any popular / populist narratives.

tomp 11y ago
> Obviously it's just as despicable to say that the Gulags never happened. Obviously. But the latter is not illegal. > It's not much of an issue though in Germany / Europe, no one's really claiming that, probably since it wouldn't feed into any popular / populist narratives. This argument contains an implicit assumption that the situation would be worse if holocaust denial was legal. Is there any data to support this claim (e.g. from the time or countries where holocaust denial isn't legal)? If not, I seriously doubt this claim - right now, it appears that Germany has a serious, possibly growing, problem with neo-nazis, while it's illegal. On the other hand, plenty of European countries and the US have little problems with neo-nazis, despite it being legal (they have other racial/white-supremacist problems, but they rarely seem against Jews, unless I'm very mistaken). So it would seem that that implicit assumption completely made up.
- Mithaldu 11y ago
  Look. It is clear you have few insights into how the neo nazi psyche works, since you're not directly in contact with them and nobody has explicitly explained it to you. This does however not mean that nobody knows. Germany has a lot of problems with neo nazis because we still have actual nazis or direct descendants of those around and have a history directly tied to nazis. Neo nazis become such by way of being tought, as children, skewed views of history and accepting them as fact. Oftentimes they'll even promptly and disgustedly drop their affiliations when they become educated of historical realities, however many of them are living in circumstances (that's why they mostly occur in the poor parts of germany) where educating oneself is a luxury or maybe even looked down upon. It is not an assumption, but a sad reality that even with all the social programs germany has, it would make the situation much worse if ideas like holocaust denial could be spread unchecked.

by hussong 11y ago

tomp 11y ago

> Obviously it's just as despicable to say that the Gulags never happened. Obviously. But the latter is not illegal. > It's not much of an issue though in Germany / Europe, no one's really claiming that, probably since it wouldn't feed into any popular / populist narratives. This argument contains an implicit assumption that the situation would be worse if holocaust denial was legal. Is there any data to support this claim (e.g. from the time or countries where holocaust denial isn't legal)? If not, I seriously doubt this claim - right now, it appears that Germany has a serious, possibly growing, problem with neo-nazis, while it's illegal. On the other hand, plenty of European countries and the US have little problems with neo-nazis, despite it being legal (they have other racial/white-supremacist problems, but they rarely seem against Jews, unless I'm very mistaken). So it would seem that that implicit assumption completely made up.

Mithaldu 11y ago
Look. It is clear you have few insights into how the neo nazi psyche works, since you're not directly in contact with them and nobody has explicitly explained it to you. This does however not mean that nobody knows. Germany has a lot of problems with neo nazis because we still have actual nazis or direct descendants of those around and have a history directly tied to nazis. Neo nazis become such by way of being tought, as children, skewed views of history and accepting them as fact. Oftentimes they'll even promptly and disgustedly drop their affiliations when they become educated of historical realities, however many of them are living in circumstances (that's why they mostly occur in the poor parts of germany) where educating oneself is a luxury or maybe even looked down upon. It is not an assumption, but a sad reality that even with all the social programs germany has, it would make the situation much worse if ideas like holocaust denial could be spread unchecked.