4 ms·

One argument I've encountered that holds water, at least with regards to being unable to discharge student debt: you can't repossess someone's mind. (Technicall

by devbug 11y ago

One argument I've encountered that holds water, at least with regards to being unable to discharge student debt: you can't repossess someone's mind. (Technically you can, but that'd be a messy affair.)

blisterpeanuts 11y ago
Not yet, anyway.
commandar 11y ago
That could be said for any form of unsecured debt.
crabasa 11y ago
That's a terrible argument that I've never heard an actual policy-maker or politician make. Besides, unsecured debts are all around us, credit cards being the most common.
- slg 11y ago
  But it is much harder to get other forms of unsecured debt. An 18 year old with no job and no credit history is going to have a hard time getting a credit card with a $5k limit let alone a $100k loan. The lack of being able to discharge the loan in bankruptcy needs to go hand in hand with the guaranteed availability of the loan. Instead of changing one of those things, we are are better off coming up with a new system like no upfront tuition and income based repayment plans.
  - crabasa 11y ago
    > An 18 year old with no job and no credit history is going to have a hard time getting a credit card with a $5k limit Wow, citation please? Credit card companies set up pop-up stands and give away free t-shirts to students who apply for their credit cards. The VAST majority of the applications are happily approved. Update: excellent citation kileywm. I guess my perception was a bit dated.
    - kileywm 11y ago
      The Credit CARD Act of 2009 [1] made it considerably more difficult for an 18 year old to get a credit card, but I should add that circumstances change when an 18 year old has a co-signer. At any rate, pop-up stands and such have been curtailed by this provision: "(5) Eliminates excessive marketing to young people. Consumers under the age of 21 must prove that they have an independent income or get a co-signer before applying for a credit card. The Act also prevents credit card companies from mailing offers to consumers under 21 unless they "opt in," and prohibits companies from wooing students with T-shirts, free pizza and other free gifts at university-sponsored events." As an anecdote, my experience (within the past decade) reflects the parent post's perception. My first credit card had a very low limit of < $1000, and was surely because I was then young, a student with no stable income, and had a lack of credit history. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_CARD_Act_of_2009 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_CARD_Act_of_2009
    - rconti 11y ago
      Granted it was 15 years ago, but when I got my first credit card out of high school, the limit was $300.
      - jxramos 11y ago
        indeed, $5K seems a long stretch, $500 range is more appropriate for first time credit.
    - akgerber 11y ago
      As an anecdote, after intentionally avoiding credit cards through college, I was rejected from several when I applied for my first after graduating in 2010— and was only approved for a 'student' card (despite having graduated) at a bank where I had a savings account.
    - thedufer 11y ago
      When I was 21 I was only able to get a secured credit card. That didn't change until I got a full time job. I would've loved to know where I could get something better; I just wanted something low limit to build my credit score without tying up $1k (a lot for a college student).
  - recursive 11y ago
    I've been full-time as a software developer for >10 years, and still haven't been able to get a credit card with a $5k limit. Fortunately, I don't need credit for anything.
- at-fates-hands 11y ago
  I guess this is the lesson: pay for your college with credit cards and avoid student loans. One can be discharged with bankruptcy, the latter cannot.
  - vinceguidry 11y ago
    That's only feasible if you have limits large enough to put the whole balance on. Also, the interest will kill you unless you actually plan on declaring bankruptcy, in which case say goodbye to any chance of buying a house in the next seven years. I would think that in your early twenties, defaulting on student debt and declaring bankruptcy would have roughly the same net impact on your life.
  - dsfyu404ed 11y ago
    Don't forget that the intent to declare bankruptcy makes it fraud... but intent is hard to prove if you don't tell the internet about it.

by devbug 11y ago

blisterpeanuts 11y ago

Not yet, anyway.

commandar 11y ago

That could be said for any form of unsecured debt.

crabasa 11y ago

That's a terrible argument that I've never heard an actual policy-maker or politician make. Besides, unsecured debts are all around us, credit cards being the most common.

slg 11y ago
But it is much harder to get other forms of unsecured debt. An 18 year old with no job and no credit history is going to have a hard time getting a credit card with a $5k limit let alone a $100k loan. The lack of being able to discharge the loan in bankruptcy needs to go hand in hand with the guaranteed availability of the loan. Instead of changing one of those things, we are are better off coming up with a new system like no upfront tuition and income based repayment plans.
- crabasa 11y ago
  > An 18 year old with no job and no credit history is going to have a hard time getting a credit card with a $5k limit Wow, citation please? Credit card companies set up pop-up stands and give away free t-shirts to students who apply for their credit cards. The VAST majority of the applications are happily approved. Update: excellent citation kileywm. I guess my perception was a bit dated.
  - kileywm 11y ago
    The Credit CARD Act of 2009 [1] made it considerably more difficult for an 18 year old to get a credit card, but I should add that circumstances change when an 18 year old has a co-signer. At any rate, pop-up stands and such have been curtailed by this provision: "(5) Eliminates excessive marketing to young people. Consumers under the age of 21 must prove that they have an independent income or get a co-signer before applying for a credit card. The Act also prevents credit card companies from mailing offers to consumers under 21 unless they "opt in," and prohibits companies from wooing students with T-shirts, free pizza and other free gifts at university-sponsored events." As an anecdote, my experience (within the past decade) reflects the parent post's perception. My first credit card had a very low limit of < $1000, and was surely because I was then young, a student with no stable income, and had a lack of credit history. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_CARD_Act_of_2009 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_CARD_Act_of_2009
  - rconti 11y ago
    Granted it was 15 years ago, but when I got my first credit card out of high school, the limit was $300.
    - jxramos 11y ago
      indeed, $5K seems a long stretch, $500 range is more appropriate for first time credit.
  - akgerber 11y ago
    As an anecdote, after intentionally avoiding credit cards through college, I was rejected from several when I applied for my first after graduating in 2010— and was only approved for a 'student' card (despite having graduated) at a bank where I had a savings account.
  - thedufer 11y ago
    When I was 21 I was only able to get a secured credit card. That didn't change until I got a full time job. I would've loved to know where I could get something better; I just wanted something low limit to build my credit score without tying up $1k (a lot for a college student).
- recursive 11y ago
  I've been full-time as a software developer for >10 years, and still haven't been able to get a credit card with a $5k limit. Fortunately, I don't need credit for anything.
at-fates-hands 11y ago
I guess this is the lesson: pay for your college with credit cards and avoid student loans. One can be discharged with bankruptcy, the latter cannot.
- vinceguidry 11y ago
  That's only feasible if you have limits large enough to put the whole balance on. Also, the interest will kill you unless you actually plan on declaring bankruptcy, in which case say goodbye to any chance of buying a house in the next seven years. I would think that in your early twenties, defaulting on student debt and declaring bankruptcy would have roughly the same net impact on your life.
- dsfyu404ed 11y ago
  Don't forget that the intent to declare bankruptcy makes it fraud... but intent is hard to prove if you don't tell the internet about it.