5 ms·

My tuition fee in a top-notch european technical college (automation engineering) was roughly 3000$/year. But yeah, let's keep cargo-culting the US model.

outside1234 11y ago
You probably forgot taxes in that cost (that you will pay for the rest of your life as a high earner) but, that said, that is a great model: the country makes an investment in you, you prove you are serious about it (the $3000 a year), and in return, the country gets a higher wage earner (and more taxes) to pay for the next generation.
- jnardiello 11y ago
  No, I didn't. That was the total tuition fee including taxes. Obviously that didn't include any sort of college accommodation or meal plan - as I lived at reasonable distance from the campus. It was just standard "classes & exams". That said, because tuition and taxes are proportional to family income, I was in the highest and most expensive tuition fee. Most of the students in the campus would roughly pay half of it - unless they would start to repeat classes and not pass exams (for which you automatically jump to the most expensive yearly fee).
  - thesis 11y ago
    The person you're replying to mean't taxes you pay on your income after college.
  - outside1234 11y ago
    What I'm talking about is that most European countries have a higher overall income tax rate than the US. Some of this goes to pay for your education, so 3000 is not the total you are paying for it, you will keep paying for it over your lifetime in taxes. Again, I think this is a great idea. But that said, there is no free lunch in this world.
- S4M 11y ago
  In France the very elite students get paid during their studies (equivalent to Msc, not PhD). In exchange they are supposed to work as civil servants for some time (not sure all are supposed to do that), but some go work abroad right after their studies so that investment is mostly lost by the French government.
  - vmarsy 11y ago
    You're probably referring to the Ecole Polytechnique. Indeed newly graduates are supposed to work as a civil servant or pay the "pantoufle", which according to [1] is roughly 45000€, and as of last May when the article was written, it says only 10% of the graduates were paying it, but the government was starting to go after them. [1]In French: http://www.lepoint.fr/societe/polytechnique-le-gouvernement-s-attaque-a-la-pantoufle-24-05-2015-1930807_23.php http://www.lepoint.fr/societe/polytechnique-le-gouvernement-...
    - S4M 11y ago
      I was indeed referring to Ecole Polytechnique, but also Ecole Normale Superieure. I think alumni from Polytechnique can be expected to join the army if needed, since it depends from the Ministry of Defense.
jofer 11y ago
For what it's worth, the majority of public US institutions are similar in cost. The outlandish prices are either private schools or out-of-state tuition rates. It's been ten years, but my undergraduate tuition at a modestly well respected engineering-focused university was ~$2000-year. I think the rates at tech are now about $4000-year, but it's not too outrageous.
- lordCarbonFiber 11y ago
  Honestly saying "just look at instate costs" is just as misleading. Restricting access to a quality education / future job options (depending on your field, etc) based on geography is one of the most telling failures of American Federalism. The sooner state schools are re-bundled into a federal program for affordable access to all Americans the better.
  - giaour 11y ago
    I don't see that happening in our lifetime. What's more likely is an increase in the number of interstate agreements and consortia, where two or more states agree to charge each other's residents in state rates.
  - Amezarak 11y ago
    I'm not aware of major educational problems with in-state schools. I've compared my curriculum at a nobody southern in state school with the CS curriculum at MIT and I don't see any major differences and I don't feel shortchanged. I'm pretty sure the only your school matters in the real world is at the most elite levels of a few fields and even then its mostly just about hiring people who went to the same school as you and the perception elites must come from the ivy league.
    - lordCarbonFiber 11y ago
      My ancedote here is that it's more about opportunity than educational quality. The "secret sauce" of higher education isn't the course work, or even the individual lecturers (although there is a certain minimum bar there) as evidenced by the growing trend to offer those for free. It is rather a case of brand recognition and access to a given network. The graduate of MIT has pull in pretty much anywhere of her choosing, the Georgia Tech grad faces friction as soon as she leaves the south east, the Clemson grad faces that same friction as soon as she leaves South Carolina (top tier private, top tier public, mid teir public for engineering), all other things being equal. Given the unequal distribution of employment across the nation it seems ridiculous that there are these huge paywalls in connecting qualified students to institutions best suited for them based solely on something as ephemeral as which state their parents are working when they turn 17.

outside1234 11y ago

You probably forgot taxes in that cost (that you will pay for the rest of your life as a high earner) but, that said, that is a great model: the country makes an investment in you, you prove you are serious about it (the $3000 a year), and in return, the country gets a higher wage earner (and more taxes) to pay for the next generation.

jnardiello 11y ago
No, I didn't. That was the total tuition fee including taxes. Obviously that didn't include any sort of college accommodation or meal plan - as I lived at reasonable distance from the campus. It was just standard "classes & exams". That said, because tuition and taxes are proportional to family income, I was in the highest and most expensive tuition fee. Most of the students in the campus would roughly pay half of it - unless they would start to repeat classes and not pass exams (for which you automatically jump to the most expensive yearly fee).
- thesis 11y ago
  The person you're replying to mean't taxes you pay on your income after college.
- outside1234 11y ago
  What I'm talking about is that most European countries have a higher overall income tax rate than the US. Some of this goes to pay for your education, so 3000 is not the total you are paying for it, you will keep paying for it over your lifetime in taxes. Again, I think this is a great idea. But that said, there is no free lunch in this world.
S4M 11y ago
In France the very elite students get paid during their studies (equivalent to Msc, not PhD). In exchange they are supposed to work as civil servants for some time (not sure all are supposed to do that), but some go work abroad right after their studies so that investment is mostly lost by the French government.
- vmarsy 11y ago
  You're probably referring to the Ecole Polytechnique. Indeed newly graduates are supposed to work as a civil servant or pay the "pantoufle", which according to [1] is roughly 45000€, and as of last May when the article was written, it says only 10% of the graduates were paying it, but the government was starting to go after them. [1]In French: http://www.lepoint.fr/societe/polytechnique-le-gouvernement-s-attaque-a-la-pantoufle-24-05-2015-1930807_23.php http://www.lepoint.fr/societe/polytechnique-le-gouvernement-...
  - S4M 11y ago
    I was indeed referring to Ecole Polytechnique, but also Ecole Normale Superieure. I think alumni from Polytechnique can be expected to join the army if needed, since it depends from the Ministry of Defense.

jofer 11y ago

For what it's worth, the majority of public US institutions are similar in cost. The outlandish prices are either private schools or out-of-state tuition rates. It's been ten years, but my undergraduate tuition at a modestly well respected engineering-focused university was ~$2000-year. I think the rates at tech are now about $4000-year, but it's not too outrageous.

lordCarbonFiber 11y ago
Honestly saying "just look at instate costs" is just as misleading. Restricting access to a quality education / future job options (depending on your field, etc) based on geography is one of the most telling failures of American Federalism. The sooner state schools are re-bundled into a federal program for affordable access to all Americans the better.
- giaour 11y ago
  I don't see that happening in our lifetime. What's more likely is an increase in the number of interstate agreements and consortia, where two or more states agree to charge each other's residents in state rates.
- Amezarak 11y ago
  I'm not aware of major educational problems with in-state schools. I've compared my curriculum at a nobody southern in state school with the CS curriculum at MIT and I don't see any major differences and I don't feel shortchanged. I'm pretty sure the only your school matters in the real world is at the most elite levels of a few fields and even then its mostly just about hiring people who went to the same school as you and the perception elites must come from the ivy league.
  - lordCarbonFiber 11y ago
    My ancedote here is that it's more about opportunity than educational quality. The "secret sauce" of higher education isn't the course work, or even the individual lecturers (although there is a certain minimum bar there) as evidenced by the growing trend to offer those for free. It is rather a case of brand recognition and access to a given network. The graduate of MIT has pull in pretty much anywhere of her choosing, the Georgia Tech grad faces friction as soon as she leaves the south east, the Clemson grad faces that same friction as soon as she leaves South Carolina (top tier private, top tier public, mid teir public for engineering), all other things being equal. Given the unequal distribution of employment across the nation it seems ridiculous that there are these huge paywalls in connecting qualified students to institutions best suited for them based solely on something as ephemeral as which state their parents are working when they turn 17.