4 ms·

Title is misleading; this is about Common Lisp in particular.

by dgreensp 11y ago

Grue3 11y ago
Well, Common Lisp is Lisp. Scheme, Clojure etc. are lisps, with lower-case "l" ;)
- qwertyuiop924 11y ago
  That's just wrong. Clisp is the most popular lisp bearing the name, but the LISP, Lisp, or lisp family includes Scheme, and Clojure. if you just refer to Lisp, you may be referring to Clisp, the lisp family, or maybe even LISP 1.5, the lisp equivalent of V7 unix.
  - lispm 11y ago
    Clisp is an implementation of Common Lisp. Common Lisp includes a core of the original Lisp. Lisp programs from the 60s can either be run or ported to Common Lisp with little or no effort. Clojure is FULLY incompatible with any other Lisp dialect or Lisp derived language. Porting code means 'rewrite'.
    - qwertyuiop924 11y ago
      Oh. Sorry. I was abbreviating Common Lisp. Whoops. Anyways, that's like saying that Go, Plan 9 C, D, Java, and Cyclone aren't in the C family, because you can't run ANSI C '99 on them and have it work. The Lisp family is diverse.
      - lispm 11y ago
        See C++, Objective-C and a bunch of other languages actually in the C family. They all share C. Real basic C. 'The Lisp family is diverse.' You interpret it in a way to make it practically meaningless.
        qwertyuiop924 11y ago
        No. The lisp family is a real thing. They all share homoiconic syntax, singly linked lists as a primary data structure, and most of them support syntactic extension through macros. While the validity of some of my examples may have been questionable, how is Plan 9 C not in the C family? and just TRY to compile ANSI C on a P9C compiler without significant modification.
        lispm 11y ago
        Significant modification is something different than complete rewrite. The Lisp languages share a common core language, code, ideas, literature, community. Derived languages like Logo, Dylan, Clojure, Racket, ... have their own core language, their own code, their own ideas, their own literature and their own community.
        qwertyuiop924 11y ago
        Yes, but they also share a history and a set of syntax and ideas... Well, except Dylan, syntax-wise. But ultimately this is an argument about terminology. And the majority of people would say that scheme is a lisp. A lisp. Not a language derived from lisp, that is independent. A LISP. in the LISP family, because that is a thing. And if you want proof that that is what most people think, you need only check Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Lisp_programming_language_family https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Lisp_programming_lang...
        lispm 11y ago
        THat's what people thought twenty years. Today this does not matter anymore. > Yes, but they also share a history and a set of syntax and ideas... Clojure: user=> (cons 1 2) IllegalArgumentException Don't know how to create ISeq from: java.lang.Long clojure.lang.RT.seqFrom (RT.java:542) user=> (cdr '(1 . 2)) CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: cdr in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:2:1) What I say...

Title is misleading; this is about Common Lisp in particular.

Grue3 11y ago

Well, Common Lisp is Lisp. Scheme, Clojure etc. are lisps, with lower-case "l" ;)

qwertyuiop924 11y ago
That's just wrong. Clisp is the most popular lisp bearing the name, but the LISP, Lisp, or lisp family includes Scheme, and Clojure. if you just refer to Lisp, you may be referring to Clisp, the lisp family, or maybe even LISP 1.5, the lisp equivalent of V7 unix.
- lispm 11y ago
  Clisp is an implementation of Common Lisp. Common Lisp includes a core of the original Lisp. Lisp programs from the 60s can either be run or ported to Common Lisp with little or no effort. Clojure is FULLY incompatible with any other Lisp dialect or Lisp derived language. Porting code means 'rewrite'.
  - qwertyuiop924 11y ago
    Oh. Sorry. I was abbreviating Common Lisp. Whoops. Anyways, that's like saying that Go, Plan 9 C, D, Java, and Cyclone aren't in the C family, because you can't run ANSI C '99 on them and have it work. The Lisp family is diverse.
    - lispm 11y ago
      See C++, Objective-C and a bunch of other languages actually in the C family. They all share C. Real basic C. 'The Lisp family is diverse.' You interpret it in a way to make it practically meaningless.
      - qwertyuiop924 11y ago
        No. The lisp family is a real thing. They all share homoiconic syntax, singly linked lists as a primary data structure, and most of them support syntactic extension through macros. While the validity of some of my examples may have been questionable, how is Plan 9 C not in the C family? and just TRY to compile ANSI C on a P9C compiler without significant modification.
        lispm 11y ago
        Significant modification is something different than complete rewrite. The Lisp languages share a common core language, code, ideas, literature, community. Derived languages like Logo, Dylan, Clojure, Racket, ... have their own core language, their own code, their own ideas, their own literature and their own community.
        qwertyuiop924 11y ago
        Yes, but they also share a history and a set of syntax and ideas... Well, except Dylan, syntax-wise. But ultimately this is an argument about terminology. And the majority of people would say that scheme is a lisp. A lisp. Not a language derived from lisp, that is independent. A LISP. in the LISP family, because that is a thing. And if you want proof that that is what most people think, you need only check Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Lisp_programming_language_family https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Lisp_programming_lang...
        lispm 11y ago
        THat's what people thought twenty years. Today this does not matter anymore. > Yes, but they also share a history and a set of syntax and ideas... Clojure: user=> (cons 1 2) IllegalArgumentException Don't know how to create ISeq from: java.lang.Long clojure.lang.RT.seqFrom (RT.java:542) user=> (cdr '(1 . 2)) CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: cdr in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:2:1) What I say...