6 ms·

Trim seeks out and destroys awful monthly subscriptions

73 points by shawndumas 11y ago

pjc50 11y ago
Hang on, how does it get your list of transactions using just a credit card and phone number?
- walterbell 11y ago
  Yes, why are banks releasing purchase history to a third-party data processor without customer authentication by the bank?
  - bhandziuk 11y ago
    It seems they are authenticated because you gave them your bank password. As far as your bank knows they're you.
- zrail 11y ago
  It doesn't. They use Plaid[1] as a gateway to your bank. Credentials never hit their system, only Plaid.[2] [1]: https://www.plaid.com/ https://www.plaid.com/ [2]: http://www.asktrim.com/security http://www.asktrim.com/security
- VeilEm 11y ago
  The trim FAQ actually says it requires the bank login.[0] So it probably uses the same expensive bank account webpage scraping service mint uses. [0] http://www.asktrim.com/faq http://www.asktrim.com/faq
- sp332 11y ago
  It doesn't say only a credit card and phone number. Those are just the interesting parts of the service.
mynewtb 11y ago
> it can be difficult to keep track of where your money is going on a monthly basis Uh, really? Just look at the list of your transactions and that's it. We all live on the shallow submarine.
- sp332 11y ago
  I had 187 transactions last month. The odds that I would overlook one is pretty high. A service that can automatically highlight interesting categories seems pretty useful.
  - ucsfgrad 11y ago
    Let's be conservative and say that it takes the average person 3 seconds to read a transaction, recall whether it is a retail or subscription service, and if it is a subscription service decide if you want to keep it or investigate it. Then in no more than 10 minutes you would have generated a short list of subscriptions to investigate and potentially cancel. Do you really not have 10 minutes per month to review your transaction history? The service may be free, but(!) you have to hand over your financial info (to a random company) and credentials (to plaid/intuit). Protecting that information is worth a lot more to me than 10 minutes of my time. Not to mention, reviewing one's monthly transaction one by one is a great opportunity to reflect one's spending habits and rein in superfluous purchases.
    - walterbell 11y ago
      Would you entrust credentials to financial auditing software that only ran locally on a trusted client device, where the auditing software was firewalled so it could only access whitelisted network addresses?
    - jsolson 11y ago
      Keeping transactions categorized in Mint easily takes me a couple hours per month. Many restaurants/bars/online shops have terrible metadata for their transactions, in my experience. I typically have ~300 txn/month between my wife and I. Most of them take no time at all. The ones where I have to dig due to crap metadata usually take 5-10 minutes apiece. I've mostly decided it's not worth it, but every couple months I'll ask "how did we spend this much?!" and categorize everything only to discover it was my new ski gear all along and I'd just forgotten it.
eykanal 11y ago
So, I'm supposed to hand over my credit card to some unknown stranger and hope that they're good people? Holy privacy intrusion, Batman! There's nothing on the website stating that they're not storing information. (They do list that they don't have access to certain info, such as credentials, but nothing discussing actual transaction data.) I would hope that sort of thing would be explicitly called out. There's also no mention of security audits or anything other than their use of 256-bit encryption for lots of stuff, which frankly I don't know whether is good or bad, enough or nowhere near that. Also, companies of this size go out of business or get acquired or whatever all the time... where's some assurance that my data will be purged when the company dissolves or gets bought out by WeSellYourData.com? Color me somewhat skeptical. On a related note, the fact that TheVerge talks about it as though "what an awesome service" without mentioning ANY sort of "oh and by the way they can see ALL YOUR DATA because they're TEXTING IT TO YOU BY GOLLY" makes me think the less of them, as well.
- mattmanser 11y ago
  Like every shop, bar and website you've ever been to? Colour me confused Robin! You read http://www.asktrim.com/security http://www.asktrim.com/security, did you read the last paragraph where they say you can email them directly at security@asktrim.com, why don't you do that instead of over-reacting in the comments?
wh-uws 11y ago
Despite it being quite the first world problem its a problem I have. I've been wanting to use a service like this but here is my question. Whats with the whole text message as a ui craze? I don't get it / like it. Especially for this app. The explanation I usually hear is its good for people who dont have smartphones or at least good ones. But I think the overlap of the set of people with this problem and no smartphone are vanishingly small. This is the kind of service I want an app/ website that I can analyze the data with and push notifications work for the text message case.
- Aleman360 11y ago
  > Whats with the whole text message as a ui craze? It's a next gen command line.
- colmvp 11y ago
  Lower friction as you are creating a process that works on multiple OS' without needing to download an app Also, everyone largely keeps text message notifications on so it's easier to maintain communication compared to relying on the user enabling app notifications
  - caseysoftware 11y ago
    You nailed it. It gives you 100% market penetration with one system, one UI, and then you can focus on the backend processing and workflows. It also doesn't require data or the like. If you throw in some phone number -> country processing, you can even make some best-guess localization/internationalization with pretty minimal effort. It's a simple but powerful approach. ~ Former Twilio evangelist, so biased :)
    - ufo 11y ago
      I'm curious about how you can deal with security/authentication in these SMS APIs. In theory, sending spoofed SMS messages to Trim would let you cancel someone else's sbuscriptions.
dghughes 11y ago
I was a Netflix user but one day as I was looking at my credit card statement I saw I was charged twice three months in a row. I called Netflix support and was told some excuse their computer had already billed me so their hands were tied. Somehow with no interaction Netflix was able to sign me up for another account on my credit card not authorized by me. And they didn't seem the least bit worried and we're actually defensive or insulted. I can't recall the end result but I think I was given a month free or something like that. The support person was sorry I didn't want to stay with them I said you have no idea how I need up with two accounts! Why would I stay? Anyway I guess this service wouldn't trim that duplicate account but it shows how easy we can lose control of our money.
- lfowles 11y ago
  This is why I prefer to use YNAB for budgeting, because at some point I have to manually verify every charge is accounted for.
jenshoop 11y ago
May be useful at the enterprise level/in a work context. I will be honest and admit that as an executive at a startup, I often sign up for tools that I plan to later sunset but forget about / think "Well, I might use that next month." Totally different mindset than I might apply personally.
rwmj 11y ago
Nice! Sounds like they are solving the chicken-and-egg problem properly (http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000054.html http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000054.html).
blisterpeanuts 11y ago
Maybe simpler to just cancel your credit card? Probably a good idea to do periodically, in this age of massive id theft. Just update your legitimate subscriptions with your new card number, keep careful notes, and wait to see who else out there starts squawking.
ergest 11y ago
Mint can already look at your CC transactions if you connect the bank account to it. I wonder how come they've never done something similar. It wouldn't really cost them that much to maintain a database of subscription based services and do a text match to highlight them. Heck it can even be a category. You can of course do this manually, but they could automate it just as easily.
- Raphmedia 11y ago
  By bank offer built-in online services that are pretty much identical to Mint's. I thought this was the standard in this day and age.
biot 11y ago
Next service: an automated means to cancel Trim.
supercanuck 11y ago
I subscribe to the Economist digital edition, and I recently noticed that I was being billed twice for my quarterly subscription. It turned out, I had "two digital subscriptions" albeit ONE username and password. The person kindly informed me this was going on for 3 years and could only refund me a year's worth after I protested how it was possible to have two digital subscriptions with the same Userid.
Animats 11y ago
This should be a standard feature of online banking web sites - a list of all your recurring transactions, with CANCEL buttons.

73 points by shawndumas 11y ago

pjc50 11y ago

Hang on, how does it get your list of transactions using just a credit card and phone number?

walterbell 11y ago
Yes, why are banks releasing purchase history to a third-party data processor without customer authentication by the bank?
- bhandziuk 11y ago
  It seems they are authenticated because you gave them your bank password. As far as your bank knows they're you.
zrail 11y ago
It doesn't. They use Plaid[1] as a gateway to your bank. Credentials never hit their system, only Plaid.[2] [1]: https://www.plaid.com/ https://www.plaid.com/ [2]: http://www.asktrim.com/security http://www.asktrim.com/security
VeilEm 11y ago
The trim FAQ actually says it requires the bank login.[0] So it probably uses the same expensive bank account webpage scraping service mint uses. [0] http://www.asktrim.com/faq http://www.asktrim.com/faq
sp332 11y ago
It doesn't say only a credit card and phone number. Those are just the interesting parts of the service.

mynewtb 11y ago

> it can be difficult to keep track of where your money is going on a monthly basis Uh, really? Just look at the list of your transactions and that's it. We all live on the shallow submarine.

sp332 11y ago
I had 187 transactions last month. The odds that I would overlook one is pretty high. A service that can automatically highlight interesting categories seems pretty useful.
- ucsfgrad 11y ago
  Let's be conservative and say that it takes the average person 3 seconds to read a transaction, recall whether it is a retail or subscription service, and if it is a subscription service decide if you want to keep it or investigate it. Then in no more than 10 minutes you would have generated a short list of subscriptions to investigate and potentially cancel. Do you really not have 10 minutes per month to review your transaction history? The service may be free, but(!) you have to hand over your financial info (to a random company) and credentials (to plaid/intuit). Protecting that information is worth a lot more to me than 10 minutes of my time. Not to mention, reviewing one's monthly transaction one by one is a great opportunity to reflect one's spending habits and rein in superfluous purchases.
  - walterbell 11y ago
    Would you entrust credentials to financial auditing software that only ran locally on a trusted client device, where the auditing software was firewalled so it could only access whitelisted network addresses?
  - jsolson 11y ago
    Keeping transactions categorized in Mint easily takes me a couple hours per month. Many restaurants/bars/online shops have terrible metadata for their transactions, in my experience. I typically have ~300 txn/month between my wife and I. Most of them take no time at all. The ones where I have to dig due to crap metadata usually take 5-10 minutes apiece. I've mostly decided it's not worth it, but every couple months I'll ask "how did we spend this much?!" and categorize everything only to discover it was my new ski gear all along and I'd just forgotten it.

eykanal 11y ago

So, I'm supposed to hand over my credit card to some unknown stranger and hope that they're good people? Holy privacy intrusion, Batman! There's nothing on the website stating that they're not storing information. (They do list that they don't have access to certain info, such as credentials, but nothing discussing actual transaction data.) I would hope that sort of thing would be explicitly called out. There's also no mention of security audits or anything other than their use of 256-bit encryption for lots of stuff, which frankly I don't know whether is good or bad, enough or nowhere near that. Also, companies of this size go out of business or get acquired or whatever all the time... where's some assurance that my data will be purged when the company dissolves or gets bought out by WeSellYourData.com? Color me somewhat skeptical. On a related note, the fact that TheVerge talks about it as though "what an awesome service" without mentioning ANY sort of "oh and by the way they can see ALL YOUR DATA because they're TEXTING IT TO YOU BY GOLLY" makes me think the less of them, as well.

mattmanser 11y ago
Like every shop, bar and website you've ever been to? Colour me confused Robin! You read http://www.asktrim.com/security http://www.asktrim.com/security, did you read the last paragraph where they say you can email them directly at security@asktrim.com, why don't you do that instead of over-reacting in the comments?

wh-uws 11y ago

Despite it being quite the first world problem its a problem I have. I've been wanting to use a service like this but here is my question. Whats with the whole text message as a ui craze? I don't get it / like it. Especially for this app. The explanation I usually hear is its good for people who dont have smartphones or at least good ones. But I think the overlap of the set of people with this problem and no smartphone are vanishingly small. This is the kind of service I want an app/ website that I can analyze the data with and push notifications work for the text message case.

Aleman360 11y ago
> Whats with the whole text message as a ui craze? It's a next gen command line.
colmvp 11y ago
Lower friction as you are creating a process that works on multiple OS' without needing to download an app Also, everyone largely keeps text message notifications on so it's easier to maintain communication compared to relying on the user enabling app notifications
- caseysoftware 11y ago
  You nailed it. It gives you 100% market penetration with one system, one UI, and then you can focus on the backend processing and workflows. It also doesn't require data or the like. If you throw in some phone number -> country processing, you can even make some best-guess localization/internationalization with pretty minimal effort. It's a simple but powerful approach. ~ Former Twilio evangelist, so biased :)
  - ufo 11y ago
    I'm curious about how you can deal with security/authentication in these SMS APIs. In theory, sending spoofed SMS messages to Trim would let you cancel someone else's sbuscriptions.

dghughes 11y ago

I was a Netflix user but one day as I was looking at my credit card statement I saw I was charged twice three months in a row. I called Netflix support and was told some excuse their computer had already billed me so their hands were tied. Somehow with no interaction Netflix was able to sign me up for another account on my credit card not authorized by me. And they didn't seem the least bit worried and we're actually defensive or insulted. I can't recall the end result but I think I was given a month free or something like that. The support person was sorry I didn't want to stay with them I said you have no idea how I need up with two accounts! Why would I stay? Anyway I guess this service wouldn't trim that duplicate account but it shows how easy we can lose control of our money.

lfowles 11y ago
This is why I prefer to use YNAB for budgeting, because at some point I have to manually verify every charge is accounted for.

jenshoop 11y ago

May be useful at the enterprise level/in a work context. I will be honest and admit that as an executive at a startup, I often sign up for tools that I plan to later sunset but forget about / think "Well, I might use that next month." Totally different mindset than I might apply personally.

rwmj 11y ago

Nice! Sounds like they are solving the chicken-and-egg problem properly (http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000054.html http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000054.html).

blisterpeanuts 11y ago

Maybe simpler to just cancel your credit card? Probably a good idea to do periodically, in this age of massive id theft. Just update your legitimate subscriptions with your new card number, keep careful notes, and wait to see who else out there starts squawking.

ergest 11y ago

Mint can already look at your CC transactions if you connect the bank account to it. I wonder how come they've never done something similar. It wouldn't really cost them that much to maintain a database of subscription based services and do a text match to highlight them. Heck it can even be a category. You can of course do this manually, but they could automate it just as easily.

Raphmedia 11y ago
By bank offer built-in online services that are pretty much identical to Mint's. I thought this was the standard in this day and age.

biot 11y ago

Next service: an automated means to cancel Trim.

supercanuck 11y ago

I subscribe to the Economist digital edition, and I recently noticed that I was being billed twice for my quarterly subscription. It turned out, I had "two digital subscriptions" albeit ONE username and password. The person kindly informed me this was going on for 3 years and could only refund me a year's worth after I protested how it was possible to have two digital subscriptions with the same Userid.

Animats 11y ago

This should be a standard feature of online banking web sites - a list of all your recurring transactions, with CANCEL buttons.