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"...424 lines of Java+Spring+Hibernate in 18 lines of bash." Curious. Were you paid to write the Java? If yes, how much did your employer spend to license th

"...424 lines of Java+Spring+Hibernate in 18 lines of bash." Curious. Were you paid to write the Java? If yes, how much did your employer spend to license that software? Is it possible that bloat supports livelihoods?

logn 11y ago
I'm not the GP, but speculating... The Java code itself probably took less than a few days to write. Java/Spring/Hibernate have no licensing fees (in most cases) and is an industry-standard stack. I'm guessing the original author didn't write it in Bash because either (1) they didn't know Bash, (2) they didn't know if/when requirements would expand beyond what Bash can easily do, (3) they wanted platform independence, or (4) their team wrote everything else on the Java/Spring/Hibernate stack. You can argue the merits of all those reasons, but I don't see bloat being profitable as a factor. The difference in lines and executable size is likely due to an apples-to-oranges situation. Bash scripts seem really light weight if you're not counting all of their system dependencies and if you're writing a program that Bash excels at (such as moving data around).
- jack9 11y ago
  When they say "wrote in Bash" more than likely they used Bash to script together existing unix tools, than used Bash to do some algorithm that couldn't be done as code-efficiently in java.
- aplorbust 11y ago
  You're speculating no fees paid to Oracle? "J2EE" does not suggest Oracle in any way? My understanding is that companies that license proprietary software are heavily involved in writing these open standards. Incorrect? Please forgive my ignorance re: Java. I think Moore was writing about drivers written in C. Is the GP's story about programmers at a hardware company? Does it matter that most of the comments are about high-level programming, not writing drivers? Just wondering...
  - logn 11y ago
    J2EE would imply Oracle. But there are no fees implied. Additionally, most of the Java libraries have a linking exception to prevent any GPL licensing from affecting other components. Granted, there could be fees if you're redistributing Java or embedding it on mobile hardware. It's all like this because that's how Sun did it for many years and Oracle can't/won't upset that momentum. Proprietary vendors have had a large part in writing these open standards, but they're mostly interested in creating a standardized, free commons. GP's story is not about programmers at a hardware company, and it's probably not directly applicable to colorForth.

logn 11y ago

I'm not the GP, but speculating... The Java code itself probably took less than a few days to write. Java/Spring/Hibernate have no licensing fees (in most cases) and is an industry-standard stack. I'm guessing the original author didn't write it in Bash because either (1) they didn't know Bash, (2) they didn't know if/when requirements would expand beyond what Bash can easily do, (3) they wanted platform independence, or (4) their team wrote everything else on the Java/Spring/Hibernate stack. You can argue the merits of all those reasons, but I don't see bloat being profitable as a factor. The difference in lines and executable size is likely due to an apples-to-oranges situation. Bash scripts seem really light weight if you're not counting all of their system dependencies and if you're writing a program that Bash excels at (such as moving data around).

jack9 11y ago
When they say "wrote in Bash" more than likely they used Bash to script together existing unix tools, than used Bash to do some algorithm that couldn't be done as code-efficiently in java.
aplorbust 11y ago
You're speculating no fees paid to Oracle? "J2EE" does not suggest Oracle in any way? My understanding is that companies that license proprietary software are heavily involved in writing these open standards. Incorrect? Please forgive my ignorance re: Java. I think Moore was writing about drivers written in C. Is the GP's story about programmers at a hardware company? Does it matter that most of the comments are about high-level programming, not writing drivers? Just wondering...
- logn 11y ago
  J2EE would imply Oracle. But there are no fees implied. Additionally, most of the Java libraries have a linking exception to prevent any GPL licensing from affecting other components. Granted, there could be fees if you're redistributing Java or embedding it on mobile hardware. It's all like this because that's how Sun did it for many years and Oracle can't/won't upset that momentum. Proprietary vendors have had a large part in writing these open standards, but they're mostly interested in creating a standardized, free commons. GP's story is not about programmers at a hardware company, and it's probably not directly applicable to colorForth.