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Star Wars is for children and always have been. If a bunch of adults complain that the films don't speak to them, there is something very wrong with their state

Star Wars is for children and always have been. If a bunch of adults complain that the films don't speak to them, there is something very wrong with their state of maturity. I wasn't passing judgement on the films whether they were good or bad. I was pointing out like the chef, after Lucas gained popularity, people started to attack him and his films with harsh criticism. Maybe the criticism of the chef is legitimate, maybe is earlier stuff was better than his latter stuff -- I don't know. My point is that criticism is an inevitable part of creativity and people can't make works of art to satisfy criticism because they will crush under the pressure. If the motivation for this chef is the applause, feeling accepted, and getting accolades, he is going to have a nervous breakdown. This chef, George Lucas, Mark Zuckerberg, and before him Bill Gates can't catch a break from the shit talkers. I'm not passing judgement. But if you base your self esteem on prestige be prepared to have people tear that prestige and your self esteem away with it.

PhasmaFelis 11y ago
> Star Wars is for children and always have been. That's objectively false, though. Star Wars marketing quite clearly targets both children and adults; much more so than, say, Pixar films, which are marketed solely at children despite arguably being more mature (in the "thoughtful and intelligent" sense, not the "sex and violence" sense) than Star Wars. You're actually trying to say that adults who like Star Wars are childish, and you're welcome to your opinion. But if you choose to back up your opinion with facts, you need to pick facts that are true. There are many exclusively kid-targeted properties that attract sneering attention from adult fans (mostly TV cartoons, in my experience), but Star Wars doesn't fit.
- zappo2938 11y ago
  I absolutely enjoy Pixar and Star Wars films, along with many Dr. Seuss books which have messages not only directed towards children but also their parents reading it to their children on subjects like nuclear nonproliferation, anti-Semitism, dictatorial leadership, environmentalism, and in the case of Horton Hatches and Egg, not being a dead beat parent. I considered Star Wars just entertainment until my early 20s when I read Joseph Campbell which made me very conscious of what George Lucas and Disney were doing including the message of self sacrifice for a person's community, family, and friends. This means that George Lucas and everything from Disney [1] thoroughly rejects the libertarian philosophy of Ayn Rand using a language of myth and symbolism which according to Campbell connects deeply with children. That is Han Solo's character arc; he didn't care about anyone but himself when we first met him, maybe a little for Chewbacca, until he met the princess. She was the first person he put above his own self interests and the investment paid off when she put herself in harms way to rescue him. It's for children, the toys which children use to foster their imaginations are for children, the dress up customs for Halloween are for children, and Campbell explains that the particular myth of Star Wars is the coming of age story of a boy who leaves the safety of his mother to join the men.[2] Most people are heavily influenced by these stories. It's pseudo science but we understand what is going on with children who have nightmares of the Beast from Beauty and the Beast or Darth Vader. As for adults who play pretend and dress up in customs for play, they really miss the point of coming of age in the stories. [1] http://www.thewritersjourney.com/hero's_journey.htm#Memo http://www.thewritersjourney.com/hero's_journey.htm#Memo [2] http://billmoyers.com/content/ep-3-joseph-campbell-and-the-power-of-myth-the-first-storytellers-audio/ http://billmoyers.com/content/ep-3-joseph-campbell-and-the-p...
  - icebraining 11y ago
    I think the problem is that you're talking past the critics you claim are missing the point. The usual criticism of SW isn't about the main storyline (particularly of the first trilogy, which you summarized here), as the people who find that plot thin and uninteresting were never SW fans in the first place. By the way, I was 10 when the Phatom Menace came out, and I can tell you that I found it very disappointing. For a film supposedly targeted at children, it has a lot of scenes involving politics, both at the Senate and at the Jedi Council. And no, Jar Jar wasn't funny, not even then.
    - zappo2938 11y ago
      Too bad you felt that way. All the little kids in my life at the time it was released completely loved it and were obsessed with it the way I was with the first three. At no point did I say the movie was good or bad, only that it was for children and most of the children I know loved it. So I think it was on target. My original comment was about handling criticism. I think that George Lucas will continue to make movies not caring about what people think about them. I'll let him speak for himself on the subject. [1] [1] https://thescene.com/watch/vanityfair/george-lucas-on-why-he-s-done-directing-star-wars-movies https://thescene.com/watch/vanityfair/george-lucas-on-why-he...
stormbrew 11y ago
> Star Wars is for children and always have been. Please notice something about the average age of the people lined up to see Star Wars on opening weekend in 1977. http://ww1.hdnux.com/photos/21/46/45/4614480/9/920x1240.jpg http://ww1.hdnux.com/photos/21/46/45/4614480/9/920x1240.jpg There are a lot of non-children there. George Lucas, at some point, decided that Star Wars was entirely targeted at children. He was wrong. From the very beginning, Star Wars has had fans of all ages.
- mikeash 11y ago
  The first movie involves torture, genocide, and a robot-man who likes to choke people with his mind. It's hard to see how this could possibly be conceived as "for children," especially in 1977. The only thing in the entire original trilogy that I can think of being "for children" is the Ewoks.
  - zappo2938 11y ago
    To be fair as I said in another comment, Dr. Seuss covers some of these topics you mention too. Perhaps George Lucas has a different set of values. He draws the plot for most of his works from the Joseph Campbell's comparative mythology. Star Wars is the myth of a young boy who is still with his mother or surrounded by mother symbolism with his mother's family before joining the men, ep.1 and ep.4. An example of one of these rites of passage the plot and symbolism Star Wars draws from is a rite of passage with indigenous Australians when a male child is taken violently from his protective mother to join the men. During this ceremony they cut the boys penis open. George Lucas and Disney don't hide this as their source for symbolism and story plots. From ep.3 of the interview between Joseph Campbell and Bill Moyers at Skywalker Ranch 1988: "JOSEPH CAMPBELL: Well, we know what they do in Australia. Now, when a boy gets to be, you know, a little bit ungovernable, one fine day the men come in, and they’re naked except for stripes of white down that has been stuck on their bodies, and stripes with their men’s blood. They used their own blood for gluing this on. And they’re swinging the bull-roarers, which are the voice of the spirits, and they come as spirits. The boy will try to take refuge with his mother; she’ll pretend to try to protect him. The men just take him away, a mother’s no good from then on, you see, he’s no longer a little boy. He’s in the men’s group, and then they put him really through an ordeal. These are the rites, you know, of circumcision, subincision, and so forth." I for one completely support we stop coddling privileged children at Yale.
mikeash 11y ago
> Star Wars is for children and always have been. If a bunch of adults complain that the films don't speak to them, there is something very wrong with their state of maturity. As if Disney executives were shocked to find a bunch of 30-40 year olds lining up for late showings of The Force Awakens on Thursday? Star Wars may be made to appeal to children in addition to the adult audience, but it's pretty obviously not "for children" exclusively. That's especially true of the prequels and now the sequels, which are obviously made to cash in on the nostalgia of people who grew up with Star Wars in the 80s. If a bunch of adults complain that the prequels don't speak to them, it's because they're fully aware that their childhood nostalgia is being exploited for cash, and the exploiters couldn't even be bothered to do a good job of it.
vacri 11y ago
> Star Wars is for children and always have been. Ah, so the cowardly Japanese business guy stereotype complete with stupid accent, that's okay, because the film 'is for children'? The concept that the Star Wars films are just for children is just nonsense that is meant to deflect criticism. They're clearly meant to appeal to all ages. Hell, the new star wars film is rated PG-13 (as was the previous one); children aren't supposed to be able to watch it.

PhasmaFelis 11y ago

> Star Wars is for children and always have been. That's objectively false, though. Star Wars marketing quite clearly targets both children and adults; much more so than, say, Pixar films, which are marketed solely at children despite arguably being more mature (in the "thoughtful and intelligent" sense, not the "sex and violence" sense) than Star Wars. You're actually trying to say that adults who like Star Wars are childish, and you're welcome to your opinion. But if you choose to back up your opinion with facts, you need to pick facts that are true. There are many exclusively kid-targeted properties that attract sneering attention from adult fans (mostly TV cartoons, in my experience), but Star Wars doesn't fit.

zappo2938 11y ago
I absolutely enjoy Pixar and Star Wars films, along with many Dr. Seuss books which have messages not only directed towards children but also their parents reading it to their children on subjects like nuclear nonproliferation, anti-Semitism, dictatorial leadership, environmentalism, and in the case of Horton Hatches and Egg, not being a dead beat parent. I considered Star Wars just entertainment until my early 20s when I read Joseph Campbell which made me very conscious of what George Lucas and Disney were doing including the message of self sacrifice for a person's community, family, and friends. This means that George Lucas and everything from Disney [1] thoroughly rejects the libertarian philosophy of Ayn Rand using a language of myth and symbolism which according to Campbell connects deeply with children. That is Han Solo's character arc; he didn't care about anyone but himself when we first met him, maybe a little for Chewbacca, until he met the princess. She was the first person he put above his own self interests and the investment paid off when she put herself in harms way to rescue him. It's for children, the toys which children use to foster their imaginations are for children, the dress up customs for Halloween are for children, and Campbell explains that the particular myth of Star Wars is the coming of age story of a boy who leaves the safety of his mother to join the men.[2] Most people are heavily influenced by these stories. It's pseudo science but we understand what is going on with children who have nightmares of the Beast from Beauty and the Beast or Darth Vader. As for adults who play pretend and dress up in customs for play, they really miss the point of coming of age in the stories. [1] http://www.thewritersjourney.com/hero's_journey.htm#Memo http://www.thewritersjourney.com/hero's_journey.htm#Memo [2] http://billmoyers.com/content/ep-3-joseph-campbell-and-the-power-of-myth-the-first-storytellers-audio/ http://billmoyers.com/content/ep-3-joseph-campbell-and-the-p...
- icebraining 11y ago
  I think the problem is that you're talking past the critics you claim are missing the point. The usual criticism of SW isn't about the main storyline (particularly of the first trilogy, which you summarized here), as the people who find that plot thin and uninteresting were never SW fans in the first place. By the way, I was 10 when the Phatom Menace came out, and I can tell you that I found it very disappointing. For a film supposedly targeted at children, it has a lot of scenes involving politics, both at the Senate and at the Jedi Council. And no, Jar Jar wasn't funny, not even then.
  - zappo2938 11y ago
    Too bad you felt that way. All the little kids in my life at the time it was released completely loved it and were obsessed with it the way I was with the first three. At no point did I say the movie was good or bad, only that it was for children and most of the children I know loved it. So I think it was on target. My original comment was about handling criticism. I think that George Lucas will continue to make movies not caring about what people think about them. I'll let him speak for himself on the subject. [1] [1] https://thescene.com/watch/vanityfair/george-lucas-on-why-he-s-done-directing-star-wars-movies https://thescene.com/watch/vanityfair/george-lucas-on-why-he...

stormbrew 11y ago

> Star Wars is for children and always have been. Please notice something about the average age of the people lined up to see Star Wars on opening weekend in 1977. http://ww1.hdnux.com/photos/21/46/45/4614480/9/920x1240.jpg http://ww1.hdnux.com/photos/21/46/45/4614480/9/920x1240.jpg There are a lot of non-children there. George Lucas, at some point, decided that Star Wars was entirely targeted at children. He was wrong. From the very beginning, Star Wars has had fans of all ages.

mikeash 11y ago
The first movie involves torture, genocide, and a robot-man who likes to choke people with his mind. It's hard to see how this could possibly be conceived as "for children," especially in 1977. The only thing in the entire original trilogy that I can think of being "for children" is the Ewoks.
- zappo2938 11y ago
  To be fair as I said in another comment, Dr. Seuss covers some of these topics you mention too. Perhaps George Lucas has a different set of values. He draws the plot for most of his works from the Joseph Campbell's comparative mythology. Star Wars is the myth of a young boy who is still with his mother or surrounded by mother symbolism with his mother's family before joining the men, ep.1 and ep.4. An example of one of these rites of passage the plot and symbolism Star Wars draws from is a rite of passage with indigenous Australians when a male child is taken violently from his protective mother to join the men. During this ceremony they cut the boys penis open. George Lucas and Disney don't hide this as their source for symbolism and story plots. From ep.3 of the interview between Joseph Campbell and Bill Moyers at Skywalker Ranch 1988: "JOSEPH CAMPBELL: Well, we know what they do in Australia. Now, when a boy gets to be, you know, a little bit ungovernable, one fine day the men come in, and they’re naked except for stripes of white down that has been stuck on their bodies, and stripes with their men’s blood. They used their own blood for gluing this on. And they’re swinging the bull-roarers, which are the voice of the spirits, and they come as spirits. The boy will try to take refuge with his mother; she’ll pretend to try to protect him. The men just take him away, a mother’s no good from then on, you see, he’s no longer a little boy. He’s in the men’s group, and then they put him really through an ordeal. These are the rites, you know, of circumcision, subincision, and so forth." I for one completely support we stop coddling privileged children at Yale.

mikeash 11y ago

> Star Wars is for children and always have been. If a bunch of adults complain that the films don't speak to them, there is something very wrong with their state of maturity. As if Disney executives were shocked to find a bunch of 30-40 year olds lining up for late showings of The Force Awakens on Thursday? Star Wars may be made to appeal to children in addition to the adult audience, but it's pretty obviously not "for children" exclusively. That's especially true of the prequels and now the sequels, which are obviously made to cash in on the nostalgia of people who grew up with Star Wars in the 80s. If a bunch of adults complain that the prequels don't speak to them, it's because they're fully aware that their childhood nostalgia is being exploited for cash, and the exploiters couldn't even be bothered to do a good job of it.

vacri 11y ago

> Star Wars is for children and always have been. Ah, so the cowardly Japanese business guy stereotype complete with stupid accent, that's okay, because the film 'is for children'? The concept that the Star Wars films are just for children is just nonsense that is meant to deflect criticism. They're clearly meant to appeal to all ages. Hell, the new star wars film is rated PG-13 (as was the previous one); children aren't supposed to be able to watch it.