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Taste is, by its very definition, subjective. A mismatch between the taste of this commenter's apparently very sensitive palette and that of the menu designer

Taste is, by its very definition, subjective. A mismatch between the taste of this commenter's apparently very sensitive palette and that of the menu designer does not qualify as a "rip-off".

hueving 11y ago
By that logic, nobody should ever leave a bad review because the food was disgusting.
- downandout 11y ago
  Any statement, taken to its (il)logical extreme, can be made to seem ridiculous. But no one has accused the food here of being "disgusting". In this case, OP said that he didn't like a wine pairing, and ended his comment with "good riddance". In other words, he was happy to see the livelihood of another human being destroyed because he was unhappy with the specific part of Europe that the wine he was served came from. The Internet exacerbates sociopathic tendencies, and there is no finer example of that than this.
  - stormbrew 11y ago
    Can we please have some perspective here? The business owner's livelihood was not "destroyed". His business failed. That is a risk every business owner takes when they start a business, and even that failure generally leaves them more equipped for their next effort. The article even explicitly talks about what he's doing next, which will almost certainly do well by him. He's going to be fine, and the OP of this thread has done and can do nothing to prevent that. This kind of extreme overreaction to criticisms of people who have incredibly opportunities ahead of them no matter what they did wrong or failed at is just silly.
    - downandout 11y ago
      Bad Yelp ratings routinely destroy businesses (which usually function as the livelihood of the owner(s)). When OP said "good riddance," he was saying that he was happy to see the demise of this restaurant because he disliked the part of Europe his wine was from. IMO, that is the kind of "extreme overreaction" you are referring to.
      - stormbrew 11y ago
        That businesses fail because customers are unhappy is a bit tautological, don't you think? That we have some visibility into the grapevine doesn't mean the grapevine never existed or that the grapevine (now called yelp) is to blame. Again, my point is that conflating the fate of the restaurant with the fate of its owner (as with any business) is the extreme reaction. The owner is fine, the restaurant is closed. Does it suck for the owner? Yes. Is it career ending or livelihood ending? Not by a long shot. Is it part of opening a business? Absolutely. Most businesses fail. And restaurants fail far more often than other businesses to boot. I have no doubt this owner knew all that going in.
      - ufmace 11y ago
        I'm gonna go with stormbrew on this one. You say "destroy business" and destroy livelihood as if this guy is going to be kicked out on the streets because his business didn't work out. Give me a break - yeah, it's sad for him that his business failed, but I'm sure he'll find another upper-middle class job soon. Being a special snowflake founder doesn't excuse him from being criticized about running a fine-dining establishment badly. We would all do better to break out of this 1950s idea that losing a job or closing a business is cataclysmically bad. It's disappointing for the founders, but everyone involved will most likely find something else just as good very soon.
        vacri 11y ago
        Running a restaurant on a small budget is an 'upper-middle class job'? I agree with you about the current problematic trope of losing a job = destitute for life, but at the same time we seem to have converted every small-businessperson into a '[startup] founder'.
        Mikeb85 11y ago
        Please, restaurant jobs are blue collar, working class jobs. Even operating a restaurant is long, hard labour. Most restaurant owner/operators I know work 12 hour days, 6-7 days per week, and if they were to go bankrupt, certainly wouldn't be able to just jump to the next project... Capital doesn't simply line up for restaurateurs because there is no big exit. The most you can hope for is to make a profit by the time your lease runs out, and maybe pay yourself a salary.
- prawn 11y ago
  There's a difference between claiming someone is intentionally ripping you off, and saying that something is not to your taste.
gyardley 11y ago
Oh, it's possible that the commenter had an unusual palate and he got some perfectly fine pairings that didn't work for him and him alone. Or it's possible that the pairings were selected lackadaisically or to reduce some inventory, and he really did get ripped off - which does happen. It's impossible for either of us to tell. I am curious, though, why you seem so insistent that it's the commenter at fault, to the point of calling out his 'sociopathic tendencies'. Do you really think there's no way for a restaurant to screw up a wine pairing?
- downandout 11y ago
  >Do you really think there's no way for a restaurant to screw up a wine pairing? I guess I don't think it's that important of an issue regardless of whether it was screwed up or not - certainly not enough to publicly cheer the demise of someone's business. There are reasons that some restaurants should be closed. Food handling practices that endanger public health is one example. Serving wine from the wrong part of Europe at a restaurant where the food is critically acclaimed, however, isn't one - at least in my opinion.
  - ghshephard 11y ago
    If you were served some fresh lake trout, and the restaurant paired it with a rich malbec - you honestly don't think that sort of behavior isn't the sort of thing that you should warn other people to stay away from?
    - teh_klev 11y ago
      For some of us a chunky Malbec goes fine with anything. It's all subjective.
  - cwyers 11y ago
    It's a tasting menu. The point of it is to taste good. You don't get to pick and choose, the restaurant picks everything. If they don't do a good job of pairing wine with the food on a tasting menu, customers won't be satisfied. If the restaraunteur responds to customers not liking the wine pairings by blaming them for posting bad Yelp reviews rather than changing the wine pairings, well, there's some natural consequences to that.
Chris2048 11y ago
Taste has a subjective aspect to it, but if this were absolute there could be no such thing as good or bad food beyond nutrition.

Taste is, by its very definition, subjective. A mismatch between the taste of this commenter's apparently very sensitive palette and that of the menu designer does not qualify as a "rip-off".

hueving 11y ago

By that logic, nobody should ever leave a bad review because the food was disgusting.

downandout 11y ago
Any statement, taken to its (il)logical extreme, can be made to seem ridiculous. But no one has accused the food here of being "disgusting". In this case, OP said that he didn't like a wine pairing, and ended his comment with "good riddance". In other words, he was happy to see the livelihood of another human being destroyed because he was unhappy with the specific part of Europe that the wine he was served came from. The Internet exacerbates sociopathic tendencies, and there is no finer example of that than this.
- stormbrew 11y ago
  Can we please have some perspective here? The business owner's livelihood was not "destroyed". His business failed. That is a risk every business owner takes when they start a business, and even that failure generally leaves them more equipped for their next effort. The article even explicitly talks about what he's doing next, which will almost certainly do well by him. He's going to be fine, and the OP of this thread has done and can do nothing to prevent that. This kind of extreme overreaction to criticisms of people who have incredibly opportunities ahead of them no matter what they did wrong or failed at is just silly.
  - downandout 11y ago
    Bad Yelp ratings routinely destroy businesses (which usually function as the livelihood of the owner(s)). When OP said "good riddance," he was saying that he was happy to see the demise of this restaurant because he disliked the part of Europe his wine was from. IMO, that is the kind of "extreme overreaction" you are referring to.
    - stormbrew 11y ago
      That businesses fail because customers are unhappy is a bit tautological, don't you think? That we have some visibility into the grapevine doesn't mean the grapevine never existed or that the grapevine (now called yelp) is to blame. Again, my point is that conflating the fate of the restaurant with the fate of its owner (as with any business) is the extreme reaction. The owner is fine, the restaurant is closed. Does it suck for the owner? Yes. Is it career ending or livelihood ending? Not by a long shot. Is it part of opening a business? Absolutely. Most businesses fail. And restaurants fail far more often than other businesses to boot. I have no doubt this owner knew all that going in.
    - ufmace 11y ago
      I'm gonna go with stormbrew on this one. You say "destroy business" and destroy livelihood as if this guy is going to be kicked out on the streets because his business didn't work out. Give me a break - yeah, it's sad for him that his business failed, but I'm sure he'll find another upper-middle class job soon. Being a special snowflake founder doesn't excuse him from being criticized about running a fine-dining establishment badly. We would all do better to break out of this 1950s idea that losing a job or closing a business is cataclysmically bad. It's disappointing for the founders, but everyone involved will most likely find something else just as good very soon.
      - vacri 11y ago
        Running a restaurant on a small budget is an 'upper-middle class job'? I agree with you about the current problematic trope of losing a job = destitute for life, but at the same time we seem to have converted every small-businessperson into a '[startup] founder'.
      - Mikeb85 11y ago
        Please, restaurant jobs are blue collar, working class jobs. Even operating a restaurant is long, hard labour. Most restaurant owner/operators I know work 12 hour days, 6-7 days per week, and if they were to go bankrupt, certainly wouldn't be able to just jump to the next project... Capital doesn't simply line up for restaurateurs because there is no big exit. The most you can hope for is to make a profit by the time your lease runs out, and maybe pay yourself a salary.
prawn 11y ago
There's a difference between claiming someone is intentionally ripping you off, and saying that something is not to your taste.

gyardley 11y ago

Oh, it's possible that the commenter had an unusual palate and he got some perfectly fine pairings that didn't work for him and him alone. Or it's possible that the pairings were selected lackadaisically or to reduce some inventory, and he really did get ripped off - which does happen. It's impossible for either of us to tell. I am curious, though, why you seem so insistent that it's the commenter at fault, to the point of calling out his 'sociopathic tendencies'. Do you really think there's no way for a restaurant to screw up a wine pairing?

downandout 11y ago
>Do you really think there's no way for a restaurant to screw up a wine pairing? I guess I don't think it's that important of an issue regardless of whether it was screwed up or not - certainly not enough to publicly cheer the demise of someone's business. There are reasons that some restaurants should be closed. Food handling practices that endanger public health is one example. Serving wine from the wrong part of Europe at a restaurant where the food is critically acclaimed, however, isn't one - at least in my opinion.
- ghshephard 11y ago
  If you were served some fresh lake trout, and the restaurant paired it with a rich malbec - you honestly don't think that sort of behavior isn't the sort of thing that you should warn other people to stay away from?
  - teh_klev 11y ago
    For some of us a chunky Malbec goes fine with anything. It's all subjective.
- cwyers 11y ago
  It's a tasting menu. The point of it is to taste good. You don't get to pick and choose, the restaurant picks everything. If they don't do a good job of pairing wine with the food on a tasting menu, customers won't be satisfied. If the restaraunteur responds to customers not liking the wine pairings by blaming them for posting bad Yelp reviews rather than changing the wine pairings, well, there's some natural consequences to that.

Chris2048 11y ago

Taste has a subjective aspect to it, but if this were absolute there could be no such thing as good or bad food beyond nutrition.