3 ms·

How come then new OS feel sluggish on slightly older system. You would assume with better know how it would run better(Me running latest mac osx on old mac book

by ocean3 11y ago

How come then new OS feel sluggish on slightly older system. You would assume with better know how it would run better(Me running latest mac osx on old mac book pro)

stepanhruda 11y ago
Because they also care about selling new hardware.
nickpsecurity 11y ago
What's that have to do with OS research? You should look at Microsoft Research's pages if you want to judge them on R&D or innovation. They do a lot of great stuff. The Midori project pushes the envelope in tons of ways that you're not going to see in most FOSS communities. That's the value of having lots of bright people in one place & paid to stay focused on the goal over long periods. Another great example is their VerveOS work for highly-assured OS's: https://people.csail.mit.edu/jeanyang/papers/pldi117-yang.pdf https://people.csail.mit.edu/jeanyang/papers/pldi117-yang.pd... Xax for legacy code protection was clever, too: http://research.microsoft.com/pubs/72878/xax-osdi08.pdf http://research.microsoft.com/pubs/72878/xax-osdi08.pdf
- melted 11y ago
  Midori is dead, so it doesn't push any envelopes. So the dude is reduced to essentially maintenance work on a 20 year old unstable pile of garbage. What "operating systems research" does Windows 10 actually represent? It's essentially Win 8 with a slightly tweaked UI and Cortana.
  - alkonaut 11y ago
    > Midori is dead, so it doesn't push any envelopes. S "Dead"? how many research OS's aren't "dead"? The project being completed just means the active research has stopped. The whole point of making a research project like this is to find some interesting bits of knowledge that you can incorporate into other projects. I'm sure this was already useful for .NET native, and will have bits (or at least lessons learned) for every ms. language and OS down the road. > What "operating systems research" does Windows 10 actually represent? I'm sure there are some fancy bits buried in it. The new JIT in .NET 4.6 is pretty fancy, for example (even though it isn't strictly OS research it's pretty tightly tied to the OS given how the universal app platform and store works). Win 10 is indeed mostly a polish release from Windows 8.1 (A few years ago it surely would have been called Windows 8.2 or Windows 8.1SP1). I think the naming was just part of the strategy to stop bumping major versions, like OS X.
    - melted 11y ago
      That's sort of the whole point. You can research all you want but UNIX-like OSs will completely preclude your research from actually making a dent in the real world. So the only way you can make long term progress today is by doing your research on Linux or some other free OS. There's a ton of money being poured into it. If you come up with faster, more efficient, more secure ways of doing things, you can pretty much guarantee it will be in demand. If you, on the other hand, want to engage in intellectual masturbation for half a decade and not produce anything of value, sure Microsoft is a pretty good place for that. >> JIT is pretty fancy JIT has outlived its usefulness. Name one reason why binaries shouldn't be compiled into native code once, when you install them.
- krylon 11y ago
  Having a great research organisation is one thing, turning that research into products (or integrating it with existing products) is quite another.
  - nickpsecurity 11y ago
    Certainly. Gotta remember that Microsoft's core business is supportimg what they already built and extending it without breaks. So, they have to be careful what they put into existing code. However, they use some R&D results in newer projects. I think uptake is slow for reasons it is everywhere.
- ocean3 11y ago
  I assumed OS research would include improving user experience, performance and security.
alkonaut 11y ago
I find Win10 runs better than 7 on the same hardware (Which in turn I think everyone agrees is snappier than Vista). I actually don't think the latest iterations of OS X work so well on older hardware. Upgraded a 2011' MBP to Yosemite and it was certainly a worse experience wise than upgrading my 2011 desktop from Win7 to Win10. So I guess it varies. The story of the above upgrade was of course that there was a hardware bottleneck (RAM) in the mac, which had only 2Gb, which proved way too little for Yosemite so required an update. The 2011 PC had 8GB so was fine of course. I think it's perfectly fine for the newer OS X version to use more ram.

by ocean3 11y ago

How come then new OS feel sluggish on slightly older system. You would assume with better know how it would run better(Me running latest mac osx on old mac book pro)

stepanhruda 11y ago

Because they also care about selling new hardware.

nickpsecurity 11y ago

What's that have to do with OS research? You should look at Microsoft Research's pages if you want to judge them on R&D or innovation. They do a lot of great stuff. The Midori project pushes the envelope in tons of ways that you're not going to see in most FOSS communities. That's the value of having lots of bright people in one place & paid to stay focused on the goal over long periods. Another great example is their VerveOS work for highly-assured OS's: https://people.csail.mit.edu/jeanyang/papers/pldi117-yang.pdf https://people.csail.mit.edu/jeanyang/papers/pldi117-yang.pd... Xax for legacy code protection was clever, too: http://research.microsoft.com/pubs/72878/xax-osdi08.pdf http://research.microsoft.com/pubs/72878/xax-osdi08.pdf

melted 11y ago
Midori is dead, so it doesn't push any envelopes. So the dude is reduced to essentially maintenance work on a 20 year old unstable pile of garbage. What "operating systems research" does Windows 10 actually represent? It's essentially Win 8 with a slightly tweaked UI and Cortana.
- alkonaut 11y ago
  > Midori is dead, so it doesn't push any envelopes. S "Dead"? how many research OS's aren't "dead"? The project being completed just means the active research has stopped. The whole point of making a research project like this is to find some interesting bits of knowledge that you can incorporate into other projects. I'm sure this was already useful for .NET native, and will have bits (or at least lessons learned) for every ms. language and OS down the road. > What "operating systems research" does Windows 10 actually represent? I'm sure there are some fancy bits buried in it. The new JIT in .NET 4.6 is pretty fancy, for example (even though it isn't strictly OS research it's pretty tightly tied to the OS given how the universal app platform and store works). Win 10 is indeed mostly a polish release from Windows 8.1 (A few years ago it surely would have been called Windows 8.2 or Windows 8.1SP1). I think the naming was just part of the strategy to stop bumping major versions, like OS X.
  - melted 11y ago
    That's sort of the whole point. You can research all you want but UNIX-like OSs will completely preclude your research from actually making a dent in the real world. So the only way you can make long term progress today is by doing your research on Linux or some other free OS. There's a ton of money being poured into it. If you come up with faster, more efficient, more secure ways of doing things, you can pretty much guarantee it will be in demand. If you, on the other hand, want to engage in intellectual masturbation for half a decade and not produce anything of value, sure Microsoft is a pretty good place for that. >> JIT is pretty fancy JIT has outlived its usefulness. Name one reason why binaries shouldn't be compiled into native code once, when you install them.
krylon 11y ago
Having a great research organisation is one thing, turning that research into products (or integrating it with existing products) is quite another.
- nickpsecurity 11y ago
  Certainly. Gotta remember that Microsoft's core business is supportimg what they already built and extending it without breaks. So, they have to be careful what they put into existing code. However, they use some R&D results in newer projects. I think uptake is slow for reasons it is everywhere.
ocean3 11y ago
I assumed OS research would include improving user experience, performance and security.

alkonaut 11y ago

I find Win10 runs better than 7 on the same hardware (Which in turn I think everyone agrees is snappier than Vista). I actually don't think the latest iterations of OS X work so well on older hardware. Upgraded a 2011' MBP to Yosemite and it was certainly a worse experience wise than upgrading my 2011 desktop from Win7 to Win10. So I guess it varies. The story of the above upgrade was of course that there was a hardware bottleneck (RAM) in the mac, which had only 2Gb, which proved way too little for Yosemite so required an update. The 2011 PC had 8GB so was fine of course. I think it's perfectly fine for the newer OS X version to use more ram.