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My company[0] has been considering a verification service to check on origin and sourcing claims using flavor signatures in "craft" products. Currently, all of

My company[0] has been considering a verification service to check on origin and sourcing claims using flavor signatures in "craft" products. Currently, all of our tools are used by beverage producers (beer, coffee, spirits) internally for quality and process optimization - it would be great to apply our models and create a subscription reporting and claim verification. [0] www.Gastrograph.com Edit: clarity and repetition. Also, Any ideas? What would you like to see in a service like this?

lobster_johnson 11y ago
Would definitely love to have a web site where I can go and look up a no-nonsense report on the quality and truthfulness of "artisanal" brands.
- evanlivingston 11y ago
  I'm curious how another entity could establish quality of something better than you could yourself?
  - dv_says 11y ago
    Independent verification. For example, this could have helped in [1][2][3] where toxic food products were very mislabeled. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_milk_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_milk_scandal [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gutter_oil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gutter_oil [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Taiwan_food_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Taiwan_food_scandal
    - evanlivingston 11y ago
      I guess I was interested in distinguishing between quality and safety.
  - JasonCEC 11y ago
    Quality is a tricky word, but in terms of the appreciation of craft goods, your ability to identify the subtleties that make more higher quality products _better_ is a learned trait. If your references are wrong, or you miss out on the identification of a nuance, you haven't learned from the experience. For example, individuals who say "I can't taste the difference between a $30 and $300 bottle of wine" are not _wrong_ - they just lack the formative experiences and education to appreciate the attributes that the more expensive product has. Thus, if you decide that wine or beer or chocolate was of interest to you, it may be worthwhile to validate and trust your reference products.
  - HeyLaughingBoy 11y ago
    HaaS: Hipster as a service. TaaS: Taster as a service. I got lots more, including a few choice ones I decided not to post :-)
- drivingmenuts 11y ago
  How do you define "artisinal" in an objective sense? Organic ingredients, locavore, etc. all have definitions, but including them doesn't make something "artisinal" or "craft". I have this awful feeling it'll wind up like the whole organic beef fiasco. USDA certified organic is pretty meaningless, thanks to the lawsuits of large beef producers.
gue5t 11y ago
Let rich fucks get cheated. If the shit isn't good you don't need a "service" to tell.
- JasonCEC 11y ago
  Obviously I disagree with this; the appreciation of many products take some level of experience to understand what subtilty and nuance to look for. If you we're to use Mast Brothers chocolate as your "high quality" reference, you would be learning to identify the wrong attributes as indicators of quality.
  - userbinator 11y ago
    If you we're to use Mast Brothers chocolate as your "high quality" reference, you would be learning to identify the wrong attributes as indicators of quality. Does that really matter though? Taste is highly subjective. Friends have given me what they consider very high quality, expensive chocolate, often complete with some fancy marketing blurb, and yet it doesn't taste any better to me than the more generic stuff I can get for far cheaper; but that doesn't mean I'm wrong.
    - eyeJam 11y ago
      You're 100% correct and I want to add that most people haven't trained themselves to taste well-enough to tell the difference. Taste is a trainable sense just like eyesight and hearing: a good painter must learn to "see" and a good musician must learn to "hear". Your second point is dead-on though. Only food obsessives would really notice or care that Mast Bros are frauds.
      - isolate 11y ago
        What's the difference between a food obsessive and somebody that has trained their sense of taste?
    - JasonCEC 11y ago
      My other comment above is a better reply to this: > Quality is a tricky word, but in terms of the appreciation of craft goods, your ability to identify the subtleties that make more higher quality products _better_ is a learned trait. If your references are wrong, or you miss out on the identification of a nuance, you haven't learned from the experience or you've learned bad information. For example, individuals who say "I can't taste the difference between a $30 and $300 bottle of wine" are not _wrong_ - they just lack the formative experiences and education to appreciate the attributes that the more expensive product has. There is an entire world of great flavor out there that is very hard to perceive; for example, I don't eat any artificial flavorings, preservatives, or food coloring, and when actually doing tastings for work, there are lists of black list foods and cut-off times for a clean palate - we go to that extent because anything less would cause us to miss what makes that product unique and special - we would be entirely unable to perceive it, learn from it, and appreciate it.

lobster_johnson 11y ago

Would definitely love to have a web site where I can go and look up a no-nonsense report on the quality and truthfulness of "artisanal" brands.

evanlivingston 11y ago
I'm curious how another entity could establish quality of something better than you could yourself?
- dv_says 11y ago
  Independent verification. For example, this could have helped in [1][2][3] where toxic food products were very mislabeled. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_milk_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_milk_scandal [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gutter_oil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gutter_oil [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Taiwan_food_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Taiwan_food_scandal
  - evanlivingston 11y ago
    I guess I was interested in distinguishing between quality and safety.
- JasonCEC 11y ago
  Quality is a tricky word, but in terms of the appreciation of craft goods, your ability to identify the subtleties that make more higher quality products _better_ is a learned trait. If your references are wrong, or you miss out on the identification of a nuance, you haven't learned from the experience. For example, individuals who say "I can't taste the difference between a $30 and $300 bottle of wine" are not _wrong_ - they just lack the formative experiences and education to appreciate the attributes that the more expensive product has. Thus, if you decide that wine or beer or chocolate was of interest to you, it may be worthwhile to validate and trust your reference products.
- HeyLaughingBoy 11y ago
  HaaS: Hipster as a service. TaaS: Taster as a service. I got lots more, including a few choice ones I decided not to post :-)
drivingmenuts 11y ago
How do you define "artisinal" in an objective sense? Organic ingredients, locavore, etc. all have definitions, but including them doesn't make something "artisinal" or "craft". I have this awful feeling it'll wind up like the whole organic beef fiasco. USDA certified organic is pretty meaningless, thanks to the lawsuits of large beef producers.

gue5t 11y ago

Let rich fucks get cheated. If the shit isn't good you don't need a "service" to tell.

JasonCEC 11y ago
Obviously I disagree with this; the appreciation of many products take some level of experience to understand what subtilty and nuance to look for. If you we're to use Mast Brothers chocolate as your "high quality" reference, you would be learning to identify the wrong attributes as indicators of quality.
- userbinator 11y ago
  If you we're to use Mast Brothers chocolate as your "high quality" reference, you would be learning to identify the wrong attributes as indicators of quality. Does that really matter though? Taste is highly subjective. Friends have given me what they consider very high quality, expensive chocolate, often complete with some fancy marketing blurb, and yet it doesn't taste any better to me than the more generic stuff I can get for far cheaper; but that doesn't mean I'm wrong.
  - eyeJam 11y ago
    You're 100% correct and I want to add that most people haven't trained themselves to taste well-enough to tell the difference. Taste is a trainable sense just like eyesight and hearing: a good painter must learn to "see" and a good musician must learn to "hear". Your second point is dead-on though. Only food obsessives would really notice or care that Mast Bros are frauds.
    - isolate 11y ago
      What's the difference between a food obsessive and somebody that has trained their sense of taste?
  - JasonCEC 11y ago
    My other comment above is a better reply to this: > Quality is a tricky word, but in terms of the appreciation of craft goods, your ability to identify the subtleties that make more higher quality products _better_ is a learned trait. If your references are wrong, or you miss out on the identification of a nuance, you haven't learned from the experience or you've learned bad information. For example, individuals who say "I can't taste the difference between a $30 and $300 bottle of wine" are not _wrong_ - they just lack the formative experiences and education to appreciate the attributes that the more expensive product has. There is an entire world of great flavor out there that is very hard to perceive; for example, I don't eat any artificial flavorings, preservatives, or food coloring, and when actually doing tastings for work, there are lists of black list foods and cut-off times for a clean palate - we go to that extent because anything less would cause us to miss what makes that product unique and special - we would be entirely unable to perceive it, learn from it, and appreciate it.