4 ms·

You are right. The FBI has corrected the report of her Facebook warnings that was floating around the news networks. Marquez (the Muslim convert who sold them

You are right. The FBI has corrected the report of her Facebook warnings that was floating around the news networks. Marquez (the Muslim convert who sold them the guns), however, did post something on his verified Facebook account a month before the attack.[1] And Malik (the wife) did apparently post something on Facebook minutes before the attack. Do you disagree with my overall point, that the U.S. law enforcement has over-surveillance and under-intelligence? 1. http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/san-bernardino-shooting/san-bernardino-defendant-enrique-marquez-admitted-terrorism-facebook-feds-n482131 http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/san-bernardino-shooting/san...

Retric 11y ago
Surveillance is simply a useful scapegoat it's actually fairly useless. The problem is if there are any read flags that get 24/7 monitoring then having several people flip them will quickly destroy the system. Let's say they vent in private conversation well that's legal, they then buy some guns and ammo. Well again that's legal. Then one day they go out and shoot people, well sorry we can't afford to have a swat team around and you can go from 100% legal to shooting people in about 30 seconds.
- blisterpeanuts 11y ago
  I would disagree that surveillance is "fairly useless". Obviously, there are times when keeping a watch on potentially dangerous people is going to pay off. How many times, I can't say. The problems begin when we have a process-bound bureaucracy rather than a group of smart people, each acting on hunches and excellent information. Bureaucracies can be composed of smart people yet act stupidly. Also, there are political mandates that certain minorities not be singled out, e.g. the Muslims. Thus, the fact that the three involved in San Bernardino were Muslims did not come into play until well after the shooting. The initial news articles I saw didn't even mention their ethnicities and religious affiliations; even the conservative Wall Street Journal only mentioned it at the very end, and the fact that Marquez was a recent convert to Islam didn't come out until recently.
  - Retric 11y ago
    In fiction hunches work well, in the real world there far less valuable. In terms of mass shootings Muslims are far from the most common profile. Seung-Hui Cho aged 23 for example killed 32 people and wounded 17 in VT on April 16, 2007. Jeffrey Weise, a 16-year-old killed 10 in Red Lake, Minnesota. 21 died at Columbine. Go though: http://timelines.latimes.com/deadliest-shooting-rampages/ http://timelines.latimes.com/deadliest-shooting-rampages/ they don't really fit just 1 or 2 profiles.
    - beagle3 11y ago
      Actually, there's a recurring theme among the non-muslim ones: Age 15-25 and taking antidepressants. The only reference I can find on a quick google is ZeroHedge ("The conspiracy site without the conspiracies"), but I've actually looked at some of the references in the past: It's not random. [0] http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-09-17/antidepressants-scientifically-linked-violent-behavior-youth http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-09-17/antidepressants-sci...
      - Retric 11y ago
        Not really the page I linked had ~10 people age 40+: age 36 SEPT. 28, 2012 Andrew Engeldinger 6 killed, 2 injured age 43 APRIL 2, 2012 7 killed, 3 injured: Oakland age 41 OCT. 12, 2011 Scott Dekraai, 8 killed, 1 injured: Seal Beach, Calif. age 34 AUG. 3, 2010 Omar S. Thornton, 6 killed, 11 injured: Tucson, Ariz. age 45 FEB. 12, 2010 Amy Bishop 45: 3 killed, 3 wounded: Huntsville, Ala. age 39 November 5, 2009 Nidal Malik Hasan: fatally shooting 13 people and injuring more than 30 Sure, you could say it's mostly 14-45 but that's true for most criminals and not that useful. And even just on that page there is Gian Luigi Ferri, age 55 JULY 1, 1993
        beagle3 11y ago
        Do you know why they listed these specifically? All the title says is "here are some of the deadliest ..." Even if you don't subscribe to the "more than once a day" statistic (which does include gang violence), it's still "about once a week" in 2015 for non-gang completely-innocent random victims -- and yet, this page lists only about 5 a year.

Retric 11y ago

Surveillance is simply a useful scapegoat it's actually fairly useless. The problem is if there are any read flags that get 24/7 monitoring then having several people flip them will quickly destroy the system. Let's say they vent in private conversation well that's legal, they then buy some guns and ammo. Well again that's legal. Then one day they go out and shoot people, well sorry we can't afford to have a swat team around and you can go from 100% legal to shooting people in about 30 seconds.

blisterpeanuts 11y ago
I would disagree that surveillance is "fairly useless". Obviously, there are times when keeping a watch on potentially dangerous people is going to pay off. How many times, I can't say. The problems begin when we have a process-bound bureaucracy rather than a group of smart people, each acting on hunches and excellent information. Bureaucracies can be composed of smart people yet act stupidly. Also, there are political mandates that certain minorities not be singled out, e.g. the Muslims. Thus, the fact that the three involved in San Bernardino were Muslims did not come into play until well after the shooting. The initial news articles I saw didn't even mention their ethnicities and religious affiliations; even the conservative Wall Street Journal only mentioned it at the very end, and the fact that Marquez was a recent convert to Islam didn't come out until recently.
- Retric 11y ago
  In fiction hunches work well, in the real world there far less valuable. In terms of mass shootings Muslims are far from the most common profile. Seung-Hui Cho aged 23 for example killed 32 people and wounded 17 in VT on April 16, 2007. Jeffrey Weise, a 16-year-old killed 10 in Red Lake, Minnesota. 21 died at Columbine. Go though: http://timelines.latimes.com/deadliest-shooting-rampages/ http://timelines.latimes.com/deadliest-shooting-rampages/ they don't really fit just 1 or 2 profiles.
  - beagle3 11y ago
    Actually, there's a recurring theme among the non-muslim ones: Age 15-25 and taking antidepressants. The only reference I can find on a quick google is ZeroHedge ("The conspiracy site without the conspiracies"), but I've actually looked at some of the references in the past: It's not random. [0] http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-09-17/antidepressants-scientifically-linked-violent-behavior-youth http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-09-17/antidepressants-sci...
    - Retric 11y ago
      Not really the page I linked had ~10 people age 40+: age 36 SEPT. 28, 2012 Andrew Engeldinger 6 killed, 2 injured age 43 APRIL 2, 2012 7 killed, 3 injured: Oakland age 41 OCT. 12, 2011 Scott Dekraai, 8 killed, 1 injured: Seal Beach, Calif. age 34 AUG. 3, 2010 Omar S. Thornton, 6 killed, 11 injured: Tucson, Ariz. age 45 FEB. 12, 2010 Amy Bishop 45: 3 killed, 3 wounded: Huntsville, Ala. age 39 November 5, 2009 Nidal Malik Hasan: fatally shooting 13 people and injuring more than 30 Sure, you could say it's mostly 14-45 but that's true for most criminals and not that useful. And even just on that page there is Gian Luigi Ferri, age 55 JULY 1, 1993
      - beagle3 11y ago
        Do you know why they listed these specifically? All the title says is "here are some of the deadliest ..." Even if you don't subscribe to the "more than once a day" statistic (which does include gang violence), it's still "about once a week" in 2015 for non-gang completely-innocent random victims -- and yet, this page lists only about 5 a year.