5 ms·

I've been browsing their (extremely heavy, intensive) website trying to figure out "what are the modules" ... and all I can see is that there is a removable bat

by rsync 11y ago

I've been browsing their (extremely heavy, intensive) website trying to figure out "what are the modules" ... and all I can see is that there is a removable battery and that I could replace/repair parts like camera and speaker and so on. But it looks to me that all of the actual functions of the phone are integrated into one big SoC. That misses the entire point of a modular computing device - phone or otherwise. I want a wireless comms module (which contains not just the wifi/bt/cellular antennas, but the chipset itself) that I can remove or hard disable with a switch. I want an inputs module that contains not just the mic and speaker, but their enabling circuitry so I can remove it or hard disable it with a switch. I want a GPS module ... a USB ports module ... a camera module. That's what a modular smartphone is all about. There's nothing modular about a big monster (closed, telco-owned, user-hostile) SoC that contains all of the actual functions.

jansc 11y ago
I disagree (Disclaimer: I'm one of the early backers). The current trend in mobile phones is towards more closed systems. Components are glued together, and often it's not often possible for a user to even change a battery. That's what I would call a big monster. The Fairphone is the first phone to get a 10/10 repairability score from ifixit. Though there could be more components, it's definitely a step in the right direction. The whole point is to a able to use that phone for 4-5 years. If one part breaks (touchscreen, battery), you can replace that part yourself. If a better camera becomes available, I can choose to update just the camera instead of buying a new phone. Cheaper for me as a user and better for the environment.
- Swizec 11y ago
  All my iPhones have lasted 4-5 years. Granted I had to get the screen replaced on one of them after my bird dropped it off the counter. Wtf are you people doing with your phones? I downright abuse mine (think longboarding falls at 50kph with phone flying out of pocket) and it survives all.
  - jansc 11y ago
    Seems like you're a lucky guy. My current iPhone 4s is falling apart. One of the speakers doesn't work, battery lasts only half a day, and the power off button is broken. And I guess there won't be any software updates after the current iOS release.
    - whatusername 11y ago
      The 4s is now in the 4-5 years since release category.
  - dibujante 11y ago
    You are a lucky guy. My phone slipped off of my nightstand, falling all of two feet, but managed to break the digitizer at exactly the point that caused the entire screen to become disabled.
  - SixSigma 11y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery Battery life On average, lifetimes consist of 1000 cycles, although battery performance is rarely specified for more than 500 cycles. This means that batteries of mobile phones, or other hand-held devices in daily use, are not expected to last longer than three years.
  - nerfhammer 11y ago
    You have a bird that carries your phone?
    - StavrosK 11y ago
      It's UK slang for girl.
      - Swizec 11y ago
        I also have an actual bird who once pushed my phone off the counter because he's a dick.
- lazyjones 11y ago
  > If a better camera becomes available, I can choose to update just the camera instead of buying a new phone. If a new transmission standard becomes available, you need to buy a new phone. This could have been avoided with a truly modular design that would have satisfied security-conscious people as well.
  - roywiggins 11y ago
    Admittedly being able to swap that out would be awesome, but you don't -have- to buy a new phone. 2G phones still work just fine.
    - scintill76 11y ago
      A 2G phone works only as long as there's a network. Some of the 2G networks are shutting off in the next 1-2 years.
  - rlpb 11y ago
    > This could have been avoided with a truly modular design No. A new module interconnect bus standard might become available, which would limit you just as much when you compare to the competition with integrated phones which can change both in new devices as needed.
nickpsecurity 11y ago
"That misses the entire point of a modular computing device - phone or otherwise." No it doesn't. One major use of a more modular device is easier repairs. Many devices are difficult to repair to increase support or replacement revenue. A device whose modules are easy to replace is a differentiator and benefit as it let's us just use Google. :) Of course, the modularity needs to focus on the devices that will break the most often. In mobile, I'd say it's screens, buttons, speakers, mic's, connectors, and maybe batteries.
- jklinger410 11y ago
  >modular device >more modular different goalposts
  - nickpsecurity 11y ago
    Not at all given you haven't defined modular. Do you need to be able to replace individual logic gates, memory blocks, or PCB connections? Do you need to replace components mentioned in specs? Something in between? It's not at all clear that a modular phone needs to be anything but what I described. The goal would need to be much more specific.
Brakenshire 11y ago
> That misses the entire point of a modular computing device The point with Fairphone is repairability - their purpose is to lower impact on the environment, and improve the social outcome of the trade along the supply chain. It's really the same sort of modularity for repair as the old Thinkpads. It's not supposed to be something like Project Ara. This is why, I saw the other week, Fairphone 2 had been given a 10/10 score by iFixit: https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Fairphone+2+Teardown/52523 https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Fairphone+2+Teardown/52523 And you can see on that page, you can break the phone down into: * Case * Screen * Battery * Main antenna * Headphone jack, earpiece speaker, and front-facing camera module * Rear-facing camera module * Microphone module * Main circuitboard, with extra USB device interface for future extensions. It may be that calling it the first modular smartphone is taking it too far, it depends really on what you mean by the word. Although I doubt there had been a phone like this before, designed to be taken apart and reconstructed. These days most phones don't even have a removable battery. Edit: FWIW, I think this also has benefits for software. Given the difficulties of phone hardware, if you can keep the phone going for longer, it makes a more stable base for ROM development. They also make it easy to root the device (and I think that will not void the warranty), and provide the code and instructions to build and flash their AOSP-derived OS in its entirety. They still have binary blobs unfortunately (you can read their various struggles with hardware supplier around this on their blog), but it's all a step in the right direction. http://code.fairphone.com/projects/fp-osos/dev/fairphone-os-build-instructions.html http://code.fairphone.com/projects/fp-osos/dev/fairphone-os-...
zdkl 11y ago
You're not alone. I'd be happy to gain some bulk on the device or lose some functionnality for the hard switchable (as in cut the power to specific) modules.
darklajid 11y ago
I had a similar reaction (although my problem is the RAM, I expect that 2GB will be too low soonish, I expect 3 right now, 4 for a device that is supposed to last long). People on their forum came up with a good explanation for your and my reaction: The media calls this a modular phone, although it isn't. You want Project Ara. This phone is supposed to last long. It's supposed to be more 'ethical', by picking a production chain according to the values of the company. By giving you ways to repair your phone without generating waste: Repair, don't throw away. It is _not_ a custom phone, where everyone adds gadgets and features in .. blocks. That's Ara. I'm interested in the FP2, but haven't fully convinced myself yet. I'm waiting for CM and ideally SailFish support and _hope_ for a hardware revision with more RAM. Until then I have to suffer this braindead, broken, useless POS that is a Samsung S6 Edge - or run around with a Flame and FxOS..
blablabla123 11y ago
The slogan of the project is right now "Start a movement". That's also the start screen, at least on the FairPhone 1. So if you think modularity is good because it's fair, then you should consider buying it. The FairPhone 1 also has its drawbacks, in particular not all materials are guaranteed to be fair. Also the GPS driver/software sucks. I guess if you buy the FairPhone because of hardware/software, you'll not become happy. If you buy it because you believe that phones should be fairer, than you might get really happy with it... ;)
omonra 11y ago
I disagree 100% with everything you said above. There is obviously no 'truth' on this - it's a matter of preference. But I believe 99.99% of mobile consumers are with me on this. The only things I care to replace / upgrade are: 1. Screen - assume that over time they get better 2. Camera - 3. Battery- 4. Main module with various chips that I don't care about in isolation. Ie I will never care to upgrade the comms module, the wifi or bt antenna, etc. Perhaps as faster processors come out / onboard memory gets cheaper, I'll care to upgrade that.

by rsync 11y ago

jansc 11y ago

I disagree (Disclaimer: I'm one of the early backers). The current trend in mobile phones is towards more closed systems. Components are glued together, and often it's not often possible for a user to even change a battery. That's what I would call a big monster. The Fairphone is the first phone to get a 10/10 repairability score from ifixit. Though there could be more components, it's definitely a step in the right direction. The whole point is to a able to use that phone for 4-5 years. If one part breaks (touchscreen, battery), you can replace that part yourself. If a better camera becomes available, I can choose to update just the camera instead of buying a new phone. Cheaper for me as a user and better for the environment.

Swizec 11y ago
All my iPhones have lasted 4-5 years. Granted I had to get the screen replaced on one of them after my bird dropped it off the counter. Wtf are you people doing with your phones? I downright abuse mine (think longboarding falls at 50kph with phone flying out of pocket) and it survives all.
- jansc 11y ago
  Seems like you're a lucky guy. My current iPhone 4s is falling apart. One of the speakers doesn't work, battery lasts only half a day, and the power off button is broken. And I guess there won't be any software updates after the current iOS release.
  - whatusername 11y ago
    The 4s is now in the 4-5 years since release category.
- dibujante 11y ago
  You are a lucky guy. My phone slipped off of my nightstand, falling all of two feet, but managed to break the digitizer at exactly the point that caused the entire screen to become disabled.
- SixSigma 11y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery Battery life On average, lifetimes consist of 1000 cycles, although battery performance is rarely specified for more than 500 cycles. This means that batteries of mobile phones, or other hand-held devices in daily use, are not expected to last longer than three years.
- nerfhammer 11y ago
  You have a bird that carries your phone?
  - StavrosK 11y ago
    It's UK slang for girl.
    - Swizec 11y ago
      I also have an actual bird who once pushed my phone off the counter because he's a dick.
lazyjones 11y ago
> If a better camera becomes available, I can choose to update just the camera instead of buying a new phone. If a new transmission standard becomes available, you need to buy a new phone. This could have been avoided with a truly modular design that would have satisfied security-conscious people as well.
- roywiggins 11y ago
  Admittedly being able to swap that out would be awesome, but you don't -have- to buy a new phone. 2G phones still work just fine.
  - scintill76 11y ago
    A 2G phone works only as long as there's a network. Some of the 2G networks are shutting off in the next 1-2 years.
- rlpb 11y ago
  > This could have been avoided with a truly modular design No. A new module interconnect bus standard might become available, which would limit you just as much when you compare to the competition with integrated phones which can change both in new devices as needed.

nickpsecurity 11y ago

"That misses the entire point of a modular computing device - phone or otherwise." No it doesn't. One major use of a more modular device is easier repairs. Many devices are difficult to repair to increase support or replacement revenue. A device whose modules are easy to replace is a differentiator and benefit as it let's us just use Google. :) Of course, the modularity needs to focus on the devices that will break the most often. In mobile, I'd say it's screens, buttons, speakers, mic's, connectors, and maybe batteries.

jklinger410 11y ago
>modular device >more modular different goalposts
- nickpsecurity 11y ago
  Not at all given you haven't defined modular. Do you need to be able to replace individual logic gates, memory blocks, or PCB connections? Do you need to replace components mentioned in specs? Something in between? It's not at all clear that a modular phone needs to be anything but what I described. The goal would need to be much more specific.

Brakenshire 11y ago

> That misses the entire point of a modular computing device The point with Fairphone is repairability - their purpose is to lower impact on the environment, and improve the social outcome of the trade along the supply chain. It's really the same sort of modularity for repair as the old Thinkpads. It's not supposed to be something like Project Ara. This is why, I saw the other week, Fairphone 2 had been given a 10/10 score by iFixit: https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Fairphone+2+Teardown/52523 https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Fairphone+2+Teardown/52523 And you can see on that page, you can break the phone down into: * Case * Screen * Battery * Main antenna * Headphone jack, earpiece speaker, and front-facing camera module * Rear-facing camera module * Microphone module * Main circuitboard, with extra USB device interface for future extensions. It may be that calling it the first modular smartphone is taking it too far, it depends really on what you mean by the word. Although I doubt there had been a phone like this before, designed to be taken apart and reconstructed. These days most phones don't even have a removable battery. Edit: FWIW, I think this also has benefits for software. Given the difficulties of phone hardware, if you can keep the phone going for longer, it makes a more stable base for ROM development. They also make it easy to root the device (and I think that will not void the warranty), and provide the code and instructions to build and flash their AOSP-derived OS in its entirety. They still have binary blobs unfortunately (you can read their various struggles with hardware supplier around this on their blog), but it's all a step in the right direction. http://code.fairphone.com/projects/fp-osos/dev/fairphone-os-build-instructions.html http://code.fairphone.com/projects/fp-osos/dev/fairphone-os-...

zdkl 11y ago

You're not alone. I'd be happy to gain some bulk on the device or lose some functionnality for the hard switchable (as in cut the power to specific) modules.

darklajid 11y ago

I had a similar reaction (although my problem is the RAM, I expect that 2GB will be too low soonish, I expect 3 right now, 4 for a device that is supposed to last long). People on their forum came up with a good explanation for your and my reaction: The media calls this a modular phone, although it isn't. You want Project Ara. This phone is supposed to last long. It's supposed to be more 'ethical', by picking a production chain according to the values of the company. By giving you ways to repair your phone without generating waste: Repair, don't throw away. It is _not_ a custom phone, where everyone adds gadgets and features in .. blocks. That's Ara. I'm interested in the FP2, but haven't fully convinced myself yet. I'm waiting for CM and ideally SailFish support and _hope_ for a hardware revision with more RAM. Until then I have to suffer this braindead, broken, useless POS that is a Samsung S6 Edge - or run around with a Flame and FxOS..

blablabla123 11y ago

The slogan of the project is right now "Start a movement". That's also the start screen, at least on the FairPhone 1. So if you think modularity is good because it's fair, then you should consider buying it. The FairPhone 1 also has its drawbacks, in particular not all materials are guaranteed to be fair. Also the GPS driver/software sucks. I guess if you buy the FairPhone because of hardware/software, you'll not become happy. If you buy it because you believe that phones should be fairer, than you might get really happy with it... ;)

omonra 11y ago

I disagree 100% with everything you said above. There is obviously no 'truth' on this - it's a matter of preference. But I believe 99.99% of mobile consumers are with me on this. The only things I care to replace / upgrade are: 1. Screen - assume that over time they get better 2. Camera - 3. Battery- 4. Main module with various chips that I don't care about in isolation. Ie I will never care to upgrade the comms module, the wifi or bt antenna, etc. Perhaps as faster processors come out / onboard memory gets cheaper, I'll care to upgrade that.