4 ms·

Can someone explain why/how the CISA portion of the bill can or can't be removed later?

maaku 11y ago
Not by any likely means.
jessriedel 11y ago
What are you asking exactly? In order to be attached to the bill, the amendment must be approved by a majority of the chamber. So that means it's already garnered support from congress, and congress is unlikely to take it off again before voting on the bill as a whole. Once it passes congress, the only way for it to be defeated would be for the president to veto the enormous budget bill based only on the amendment, which he is very unlikely to do (even if he did disapprove of CISA, which I don't think he does).
- natch 11y ago
  I think he means, while they approved the bill, warts and all, that doesn't mean everybody likes all the warts. (Although it is congress, so we have to assume they DO like warts... but let's put that aside). He's asking if they can come back and remove some of the warts, essentially, in a separate action at a later time.
  - jessriedel 11y ago
    But a majority of congress did like the wart. That's why the amendment adding the CISA text to the omnibus bill passed, and that's while it's very unlikely to be repealed later. (Of course it's possible to repeal it later, as is true for all laws; they didn't pass a constitutional amendment.) The public-choice situation as I understand it is that CISA was a bill that concentrated interests (large tech companies) liked but which the public as a whole did not like (insofar as they bothered to know about it). The key to passing such a bill is to minimize publicity and bundle it with a distraction.
    - tptacek 11y ago
      Both CISA and PCNA passed with large amounts of publicity and long review periods.
      - jessriedel 11y ago
        OK, I don't necessarily disagree, but why tack CISA onto the omnibus budget bill if not to avoid publicity? There was no compromise justification (i.e. no argument that CISA + budget bill would pass even though neither would pass alone), correct?
        tptacek 11y ago
        It's the end of the year and they're trying to get shit wrapped up. CISA and PCNA weren't controversial except on message boards. They passed with overwhelming support, positive media coverage, and the overt support of the President.
        jessriedel 11y ago
        Although I'm happy to admit that there was no major public pushback against CISA because no one in the public cared, I'm not convinced that it had public support or positive media coverage. I typed "CISA" into Google news, and these were first articles and opinion pieces that came up on the mainstream (not tech-related) news sites. (I couldn't find any positive publicity at all.) -- Washington Times: "ISA cyber bill squeezed into omnibus spending plan | Lawmakers have contentious cybersecurity legislation into an omnibus spending plan..." http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/dec/16/cisa-cyber-bill-squeezed-omnibus-spending-plan/ http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/dec/16/cisa-cyber-b... Huffington Post: "Congress Ties Controversial Cybersecurity Bill To Key Spending Package | And critics are not happy about it." http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/cisa-omnibus-spending-bill_567176b7e4b0dfd4bcc00143 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/cisa-omnibus-spending-bi... The Guardian: "Congress just revived the surveillance state in the name of 'cybersecurity'" http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/16/congress-budget-omnibus-cisa-surveillance-cybersecurity http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/16/congres... CNN: "Congress, don't be fooled by cybersurveillance bill" http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/18/opinions/polis-cybersecurity-legislation-congress/ http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/18/opinions/polis-cybersecurity-l... International Business Times: "Controversial Cybersecurity Bill CISA Passes House, Takes One Step Closer To Becoming Law" http://www.ibtimes.com/controversial-cybersecurity-bill-cisa-passes-house-takes-one-step-closer-becoming-law-2232345 http://www.ibtimes.com/controversial-cybersecurity-bill-cisa... Washington Times: "Lawmakers line up to complain about last-minute inclusion of cyber bill CISA in omnibus" http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/dec/17/lawmakers-line-complain-about-last-minute-inclusio/ http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/dec/17/lawmakers-li...
- tptacek 11y ago
  He has in fact publicly campaigned in favor of CISA.
harshreality 11y ago
The law is not append-only. Bills can add and remove anything to/from the current body of law previously passed by the legislature (as distinct from the Constitution—there's a more complex procedure for ammending that—and as distinct from executive branch regulations—which can be effectively neutralized [requiring an executive rewrite] by legislation banning programs or actions or by denying funding, but Congress cannot directly rewrite exec regs). Congress rarely removes anything because there's rarely a benefit to the representatives to remove existing law. Special interests prefer exceptions carved out rather than striking out broad provisions that are currently active.

maaku 11y ago

Not by any likely means.

What are you asking exactly? In order to be attached to the bill, the amendment must be approved by a majority of the chamber. So that means it's already garnered support from congress, and congress is unlikely to take it off again before voting on the bill as a whole. Once it passes congress, the only way for it to be defeated would be for the president to veto the enormous budget bill based only on the amendment, which he is very unlikely to do (even if he did disapprove of CISA, which I don't think he does).

natch 11y ago
I think he means, while they approved the bill, warts and all, that doesn't mean everybody likes all the warts. (Although it is congress, so we have to assume they DO like warts... but let's put that aside). He's asking if they can come back and remove some of the warts, essentially, in a separate action at a later time.
- jessriedel 11y ago
  But a majority of congress did like the wart. That's why the amendment adding the CISA text to the omnibus bill passed, and that's while it's very unlikely to be repealed later. (Of course it's possible to repeal it later, as is true for all laws; they didn't pass a constitutional amendment.) The public-choice situation as I understand it is that CISA was a bill that concentrated interests (large tech companies) liked but which the public as a whole did not like (insofar as they bothered to know about it). The key to passing such a bill is to minimize publicity and bundle it with a distraction.
  - tptacek 11y ago
    Both CISA and PCNA passed with large amounts of publicity and long review periods.
    - jessriedel 11y ago
      OK, I don't necessarily disagree, but why tack CISA onto the omnibus budget bill if not to avoid publicity? There was no compromise justification (i.e. no argument that CISA + budget bill would pass even though neither would pass alone), correct?
      - tptacek 11y ago
        It's the end of the year and they're trying to get shit wrapped up. CISA and PCNA weren't controversial except on message boards. They passed with overwhelming support, positive media coverage, and the overt support of the President.
        jessriedel 11y ago
        Although I'm happy to admit that there was no major public pushback against CISA because no one in the public cared, I'm not convinced that it had public support or positive media coverage. I typed "CISA" into Google news, and these were first articles and opinion pieces that came up on the mainstream (not tech-related) news sites. (I couldn't find any positive publicity at all.) -- Washington Times: "ISA cyber bill squeezed into omnibus spending plan | Lawmakers have contentious cybersecurity legislation into an omnibus spending plan..." http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/dec/16/cisa-cyber-bill-squeezed-omnibus-spending-plan/ http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/dec/16/cisa-cyber-b... Huffington Post: "Congress Ties Controversial Cybersecurity Bill To Key Spending Package | And critics are not happy about it." http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/cisa-omnibus-spending-bill_567176b7e4b0dfd4bcc00143 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/cisa-omnibus-spending-bi... The Guardian: "Congress just revived the surveillance state in the name of 'cybersecurity'" http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/16/congress-budget-omnibus-cisa-surveillance-cybersecurity http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/16/congres... CNN: "Congress, don't be fooled by cybersurveillance bill" http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/18/opinions/polis-cybersecurity-legislation-congress/ http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/18/opinions/polis-cybersecurity-l... International Business Times: "Controversial Cybersecurity Bill CISA Passes House, Takes One Step Closer To Becoming Law" http://www.ibtimes.com/controversial-cybersecurity-bill-cisa-passes-house-takes-one-step-closer-becoming-law-2232345 http://www.ibtimes.com/controversial-cybersecurity-bill-cisa... Washington Times: "Lawmakers line up to complain about last-minute inclusion of cyber bill CISA in omnibus" http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/dec/17/lawmakers-line-complain-about-last-minute-inclusio/ http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/dec/17/lawmakers-li...
tptacek 11y ago
He has in fact publicly campaigned in favor of CISA.

harshreality 11y ago

The law is not append-only. Bills can add and remove anything to/from the current body of law previously passed by the legislature (as distinct from the Constitution—there's a more complex procedure for ammending that—and as distinct from executive branch regulations—which can be effectively neutralized [requiring an executive rewrite] by legislation banning programs or actions or by denying funding, but Congress cannot directly rewrite exec regs). Congress rarely removes anything because there's rarely a benefit to the representatives to remove existing law. Special interests prefer exceptions carved out rather than striking out broad provisions that are currently active.