4 ms·

"The series of photos also uses other bodily fluids like semen, milk, and blood -- fluids which are highly symbolic, especially for Catholics (Serrano is a beli

by astine 11y ago

"The series of photos also uses other bodily fluids like semen, milk, and blood -- fluids which are highly symbolic, especially for Catholics (Serrano is a believer)." I was raised Catholic. Milk and semen are not symbolic to Catholics. Neither is urine. Blood is, sort of, but dowsing a statue in it would be to miss the meaning of it entirely. That's saying something because lots of things are symbolic to Catholics. The entertainer, Madonna used to drape herself in Catholic symbolism as well, even filming her music video in Churches and featuring herself having affairs with the statuary. I don't think anyone of any intelligence attributed any more to it than an attempt to shock the audience. I'd argue that Madonna's work is more aesthetically pleasing that Serrano's, (a framed turd is still a turd,) and that's really the only differentiator in this case.

ta0967 11y ago
Milk and semen are not symbolic to Catholics. Neither is urine. the symbolism may be in their exclusion and denial from the catholic cult. in many of its strains catholicism is so exalted you're only supposed to have an eternal soul, your body is filthy. which brings us back to modern art is just juvenile satire. my take on this is it's necessary (and won't stop being necessary as long as there are new people coming to this world) but in now way should be the only or the most cherished form of art.
- astine 11y ago
  " in many of its strains catholicism is so exalted you're only supposed to have an eternal soul, your body is filthy." Um, nope. That's called Manichaeism and it was condemned by the Catholic Church as long ago as the 5th century. The body is considered sacred in Catholic beliefs, but it doesn't have any special symbolism that would make something like Piss Christ make sense.
mturmon 11y ago
You have a point, that was poor wording on my part about the fluids. Let me be more specific. Of course, blood has a very central role in Catholic services and doctrine. Milk is also heavily used symbolically in the bible (Hence I have said to you, "You are to possess their land, and I Myself will give it to you to possess it, a land flowing with milk and honey." I am the LORD your God, who has separated you from the peoples.) -- but is probably not specifically Catholic. Semen and that type of "seed" are indeed used a lot in Christian symbolism. I don't know about urine. So...the significance of these fluids is considerable. People may and do recoil at the notion, but there it is. Have you seen the full series of Serrano's work from that time period? That's what I'd invite you to do, rather than judging His intentions from small photos on the Internet. To see if there's anything in it for you. Yes, I remember Madonna's work from that era that engaged those kinds of symbols. It was just designed to shock, as you say, just pushing buttons. (She has done better work, "Vogue" still stands up.). But Serrano is really, as I said, more aesthetic and philosophical than just a shock artist. That's why I counterposed Gilbert and George. That's what trying to shock looks like. (Those photos are life size, e.g. http://www.candidmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/installation-view.jpg http://www.candidmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/ins..., so they make quite an impression.)

by astine 11y ago

ta0967 11y ago

Milk and semen are not symbolic to Catholics. Neither is urine. the symbolism may be in their exclusion and denial from the catholic cult. in many of its strains catholicism is so exalted you're only supposed to have an eternal soul, your body is filthy. which brings us back to modern art is just juvenile satire. my take on this is it's necessary (and won't stop being necessary as long as there are new people coming to this world) but in now way should be the only or the most cherished form of art.

astine 11y ago
" in many of its strains catholicism is so exalted you're only supposed to have an eternal soul, your body is filthy." Um, nope. That's called Manichaeism and it was condemned by the Catholic Church as long ago as the 5th century. The body is considered sacred in Catholic beliefs, but it doesn't have any special symbolism that would make something like Piss Christ make sense.

mturmon 11y ago

You have a point, that was poor wording on my part about the fluids. Let me be more specific. Of course, blood has a very central role in Catholic services and doctrine. Milk is also heavily used symbolically in the bible (Hence I have said to you, "You are to possess their land, and I Myself will give it to you to possess it, a land flowing with milk and honey." I am the LORD your God, who has separated you from the peoples.) -- but is probably not specifically Catholic. Semen and that type of "seed" are indeed used a lot in Christian symbolism. I don't know about urine. So...the significance of these fluids is considerable. People may and do recoil at the notion, but there it is. Have you seen the full series of Serrano's work from that time period? That's what I'd invite you to do, rather than judging His intentions from small photos on the Internet. To see if there's anything in it for you. Yes, I remember Madonna's work from that era that engaged those kinds of symbols. It was just designed to shock, as you say, just pushing buttons. (She has done better work, "Vogue" still stands up.). But Serrano is really, as I said, more aesthetic and philosophical than just a shock artist. That's why I counterposed Gilbert and George. That's what trying to shock looks like. (Those photos are life size, e.g. http://www.candidmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/installation-view.jpg http://www.candidmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/ins..., so they make quite an impression.)