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Oh absolutely! I think the main issue with the garbage is that there aren't alleys where you can have dumpsters and trucks that run through them. Doesn't mean i

Oh absolutely! I think the main issue with the garbage is that there aren't alleys where you can have dumpsters and trucks that run through them. Doesn't mean it's odd to see trash bags on the sidewalk. Their culture of trash seems to go beyond cleanliness too actually. There are no public trash cans anywhere, not even in bathrooms (all blow dryers) and they expect people to take their trash with them. With the robots, I think it's more of an issue of deciding what type of robot is "right". Do we want to focus on robots that can walk and act like humans? Or those that can make ordering food easier? Cash wasn't difficult to deal with, but it's tough to argue that cards and magnets aren't the future. I don't want to come off as someone who says cash is dead in 20 years. It was really easy paying that way, and doesn't have the tracking aspect like the US has, whatever that's worth. But still seems like Japan is missing things.

darkmighty 11y ago
The cash and reservation machines were definitively good examples because those things are simply obsolete. Paying through your phone or with a credit card (apart from tracking you mentioned) is easier and less expensive for the economy (more efficient) no matter how you put it, it's just changing a few bits on some accounts. The same goes for reservations: when you have your smartphone everywhere with you and could do it from anywhere, a whole machine dedicated to it is completely obsolete. Other differences definitively aren't so clear. The trash is a good example, but a more glaring difference is how little crime they have. Crime is almost non-existent and there are no firearms, this can make parts of the US and large parts of the word seem comparatively barbaric.
- greggman 11y ago
  Japan values privacy more than other cultures. Cash is unlikely to disappear anytime soon. Even ordering online you can buy things by (1) place the order and get code (2) go to convenience store, tell code, pay cash. Merchant knows what you ordered but payment processor does not know who you are, only that cash was paid for order #XYZ. Similarly adult videos in hotels are paid by cash. You put cash in card dispensing machine and get code. Type code into TV.
  - darkmighty 11y ago
    That explanation only makes sense superficially... why wouldn't they just legislate privacy, or invest in online systems that are inherently private? (client side crypto and whatnot) -- it's by no means infeasible.
    - makomk 11y ago
      Neither client-side encryption nor legislation help if - for example - the company you've bought porn from is hacked and their customer database leaked.
      - darkmighty 11y ago
        Anonymous cryptocurrencies then? I see that would be more complicated... But still technical anonymity sounds like a weak justification for technical obsolescence. For cash, credit card systems on retail don't even get your name... I think it could be arranged online even with traditional systems. Specially if it was a national demand, this is the kind of thing you can force companies to do with laws (or they would develop themselves). I think a more obvious explanation would be related to their insularity -- they are probably the least integrated developed country (due to geographical, linguistic and cultural reasons). Some of those technologies by themselves aren't really that significant for personal productivity (I think that can be another factor), but combined they make a big difference I think.
greggman 11y ago
FYI: The trashcans disappeared after the sarin gas attacks. They've never come back https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_subway_sarin_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_subway_sarin_attack
- Robin_Message 11y ago
  London transport was the same, due I believe to the IRA. Clear plastic bin bags now hang everywhere instead of bins, which are unsightly but safer I guess.
  - mstade 11y ago
    Safer only in the sense that there's less shrapnel from the bins themselves, which is part of the reason why trash bins make such terrifying bombs in the first place. However, drop a bunch of nails and other shrapnel with your bomb, and the effect is now potentially greater because there's no shell to take most of the blast. I think the more modern bins that have very narrow openings are probably better from a safety point-of-view, since most trash is rather small anyway and terrorist bombs seem to mostly be rather clunky affairs. The split bins that have specific openings for things like papers, cups, and petty trash, are even better since they add an environmental aspect. It bugged me so much to walk through for instance Liverpool Street Station, or others, and not finding a trash bin to throw away whatever petty trash I'd collected on the way (napkins, chewing gum etc.) When someone pointed out the terrorism aspect of trash bins it was a bit of a revelation to me, and since then I've had much more respect for the people involved in street planning, including the design of public trash bins and such.
a_bonobo 11y ago
>I think the main issue with the garbage is that there aren't alleys where you can have dumpsters and trucks that run through them. Doesn't mean it's odd to see trash bags on the sidewalk. I think that differs between prefectures? I've often been to the south (Kyushu) and there each apartment building has a small building in front where the garbage bags go, and in that tiny building are several "zones" for different kinds of garbage. The garbage men just take the bags out of that building.

darkmighty 11y ago

The cash and reservation machines were definitively good examples because those things are simply obsolete. Paying through your phone or with a credit card (apart from tracking you mentioned) is easier and less expensive for the economy (more efficient) no matter how you put it, it's just changing a few bits on some accounts. The same goes for reservations: when you have your smartphone everywhere with you and could do it from anywhere, a whole machine dedicated to it is completely obsolete. Other differences definitively aren't so clear. The trash is a good example, but a more glaring difference is how little crime they have. Crime is almost non-existent and there are no firearms, this can make parts of the US and large parts of the word seem comparatively barbaric.

greggman 11y ago
Japan values privacy more than other cultures. Cash is unlikely to disappear anytime soon. Even ordering online you can buy things by (1) place the order and get code (2) go to convenience store, tell code, pay cash. Merchant knows what you ordered but payment processor does not know who you are, only that cash was paid for order #XYZ. Similarly adult videos in hotels are paid by cash. You put cash in card dispensing machine and get code. Type code into TV.
- darkmighty 11y ago
  That explanation only makes sense superficially... why wouldn't they just legislate privacy, or invest in online systems that are inherently private? (client side crypto and whatnot) -- it's by no means infeasible.
  - makomk 11y ago
    Neither client-side encryption nor legislation help if - for example - the company you've bought porn from is hacked and their customer database leaked.
    - darkmighty 11y ago
      Anonymous cryptocurrencies then? I see that would be more complicated... But still technical anonymity sounds like a weak justification for technical obsolescence. For cash, credit card systems on retail don't even get your name... I think it could be arranged online even with traditional systems. Specially if it was a national demand, this is the kind of thing you can force companies to do with laws (or they would develop themselves). I think a more obvious explanation would be related to their insularity -- they are probably the least integrated developed country (due to geographical, linguistic and cultural reasons). Some of those technologies by themselves aren't really that significant for personal productivity (I think that can be another factor), but combined they make a big difference I think.

greggman 11y ago

FYI: The trashcans disappeared after the sarin gas attacks. They've never come back https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_subway_sarin_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_subway_sarin_attack

Robin_Message 11y ago
London transport was the same, due I believe to the IRA. Clear plastic bin bags now hang everywhere instead of bins, which are unsightly but safer I guess.
- mstade 11y ago
  Safer only in the sense that there's less shrapnel from the bins themselves, which is part of the reason why trash bins make such terrifying bombs in the first place. However, drop a bunch of nails and other shrapnel with your bomb, and the effect is now potentially greater because there's no shell to take most of the blast. I think the more modern bins that have very narrow openings are probably better from a safety point-of-view, since most trash is rather small anyway and terrorist bombs seem to mostly be rather clunky affairs. The split bins that have specific openings for things like papers, cups, and petty trash, are even better since they add an environmental aspect. It bugged me so much to walk through for instance Liverpool Street Station, or others, and not finding a trash bin to throw away whatever petty trash I'd collected on the way (napkins, chewing gum etc.) When someone pointed out the terrorism aspect of trash bins it was a bit of a revelation to me, and since then I've had much more respect for the people involved in street planning, including the design of public trash bins and such.

a_bonobo 11y ago

>I think the main issue with the garbage is that there aren't alleys where you can have dumpsters and trucks that run through them. Doesn't mean it's odd to see trash bags on the sidewalk. I think that differs between prefectures? I've often been to the south (Kyushu) and there each apartment building has a small building in front where the garbage bags go, and in that tiny building are several "zones" for different kinds of garbage. The garbage men just take the bags out of that building.