5 ms·

Yeah I used to believe that but having but having lived through a lengthy episode of being in a somewhat depressed and fatigued state, and having researched and

Yeah I used to believe that but having but having lived through a lengthy episode of being in a somewhat depressed and fatigued state, and having researched and observed it in myself and others, I no longer buy that depression can "happen completely independent of your life circumstances". The main reason for this is that it's fallacious to think that your emotions are "completely independent of your life circumstances". They're symbiotic. I was born into modest privilege and had an upbringing that was free of abuse or major trauma, and the only things that have gone severely wrong for me in life have been through my own poor decisions. Yet I can now easily see how the depression I've experienced was due to a combination of living in a somewhat unhealthy environment and having a propensity to respond to that environment by becoming depressed and fatigued. I can now see the same applies to everyone else I know of who experiences depression. The explanation you've given is embraced by mental health professionals as it allows them to justify attempting to cure it with pharmaceuticals and short therapy consultations, but as the data shows, that approach has a pretty low success rate.

sean-duffy 11y ago
What you're describing is "exogenous depression", which occurs due to environmental causes. Its existence doesn't change the fact that a lot of people suffer from endogenous depression, which requires no external circumstances or stimuli. A lot of mental illness can be summarised as people reacting to things with the wrong emotions or the wrong intensity of emotion, and some forms of depression fall under this category.
- tomhoward 11y ago
  I understand your position, as it's one I held very strongly for a long time. I also agree with your point about "people reacting to things with the wrong emotions or the wrong intensity of emotion"; understanding and addressing this has been fundamental to my own recovery. What I'm disputing is the notion that there is a clear-cut distinction between "exogenous" and "endogenous" depression, and that one is "totally unrelated" to the other. Nothing in biology - or in and truly complex system - works like that. That said, I'm not presuming to be able to change your mind, but more pointing out that the premise your position relies on - that one's environment and one's emotional response to their environment are completely independent - is neither an undisputed scientific fact nor true in my own experience or anyone else I've observed.
  - rl3 11y ago
    >What I'm disputing is the notion that there is a clear-cut distinction between "exogenous" and "endogenous" depression, and that one is "totally unrelated" to the other. While I agree that neither exist in complete isolation, it still doesn't preclude one from being the dominant cause. Moreover, not many people would advance the same argument in regards to conditions such as schizophrenia or bipolar disorder—how clinical depression is somehow special and not deserving of the same [endogenous] understanding is beyond me.
    - cpncrunch 11y ago
      There certainly does seem to be a difference between depression vs bipolar/schizophrenia. Major depression is a lot more prevalent than the others, and stress seems to be a much greater part of the etiology. Having seen various family members with clinical depression and schizophrenia, life events were always associated with the depression, but not for the schizophrenia. My own view is that depression is an evolved response to negative stresses and situations, and that clinical depression is the far end of this scale. Depression is therefore your brain's way of telling you that you need get out of a bad situation. Schizophrenia seems to be akin to a flaw resulting from some evolutionary aspect of the brain's operation, perhaps due to creativity/intelligence.
      - rl3 11y ago
        >My own view is that depression is an evolved response to negative stresses and situations, and that clinical depression is the far end of this scale. How do you reconcile this with cases of clinical depression where the person's life is otherwise fantastic, and yet they suffer from crippling depression anyways—absent any negative stresses or situations?
        tomhoward 11y ago
        I would question the definition of a "fantastic" life. Appearance and reality are very different things.

sean-duffy 11y ago

What you're describing is "exogenous depression", which occurs due to environmental causes. Its existence doesn't change the fact that a lot of people suffer from endogenous depression, which requires no external circumstances or stimuli. A lot of mental illness can be summarised as people reacting to things with the wrong emotions or the wrong intensity of emotion, and some forms of depression fall under this category.

tomhoward 11y ago
I understand your position, as it's one I held very strongly for a long time. I also agree with your point about "people reacting to things with the wrong emotions or the wrong intensity of emotion"; understanding and addressing this has been fundamental to my own recovery. What I'm disputing is the notion that there is a clear-cut distinction between "exogenous" and "endogenous" depression, and that one is "totally unrelated" to the other. Nothing in biology - or in and truly complex system - works like that. That said, I'm not presuming to be able to change your mind, but more pointing out that the premise your position relies on - that one's environment and one's emotional response to their environment are completely independent - is neither an undisputed scientific fact nor true in my own experience or anyone else I've observed.
- rl3 11y ago
  >What I'm disputing is the notion that there is a clear-cut distinction between "exogenous" and "endogenous" depression, and that one is "totally unrelated" to the other. While I agree that neither exist in complete isolation, it still doesn't preclude one from being the dominant cause. Moreover, not many people would advance the same argument in regards to conditions such as schizophrenia or bipolar disorder—how clinical depression is somehow special and not deserving of the same [endogenous] understanding is beyond me.
  - cpncrunch 11y ago
    There certainly does seem to be a difference between depression vs bipolar/schizophrenia. Major depression is a lot more prevalent than the others, and stress seems to be a much greater part of the etiology. Having seen various family members with clinical depression and schizophrenia, life events were always associated with the depression, but not for the schizophrenia. My own view is that depression is an evolved response to negative stresses and situations, and that clinical depression is the far end of this scale. Depression is therefore your brain's way of telling you that you need get out of a bad situation. Schizophrenia seems to be akin to a flaw resulting from some evolutionary aspect of the brain's operation, perhaps due to creativity/intelligence.
    - rl3 11y ago
      >My own view is that depression is an evolved response to negative stresses and situations, and that clinical depression is the far end of this scale. How do you reconcile this with cases of clinical depression where the person's life is otherwise fantastic, and yet they suffer from crippling depression anyways—absent any negative stresses or situations?
      - tomhoward 11y ago
        I would question the definition of a "fantastic" life. Appearance and reality are very different things.