5 ms·

The freedom to make choices, and the knowledge of your choices. Sure, you just described a lack of knowledge... But she ALSO had the financial freedom to make

The freedom to make choices, and the knowledge of your choices. Sure, you just described a lack of knowledge... But she ALSO had the financial freedom to make the choices she wanted. That's well above "poor" in my mind. You're describing someone who thought they were poor. Sure, yup, some people are there. But many people are ACTUALLY poor - and the claim was that it's better to be ACTUALLY POOR TODAY, than RICH twenty years ago. I don't buy it.

vinceguidry 11y ago
You're not quite getting my point. Sometimes the difference between being ok and standing on your own feet and being downtrodden boils down to knowledge. You're trying to move the goalposts on what 'poor' means, and you keep having to move them because the Internet makes life so much easier that you have to actually be pretty much homeless before it'll qualify for your definition of 'poor'. People like the lady in my story, when they don't have access to social contact and information, fall prey to psychopaths because they perceive they have no other options. The psychopaths take their money and their dignity and leave nothing left. Then sure, they'll fit your definition of poor. You know what was nice when I was a kid and we were bouncing around from apartment to apartment because my mom kept losing jobs? My Nintendo. My mom won the money to buy it from a radio contest and managed to convince a coworker to sell one to her. It was the only thing I wanted for Christmas that year. Children, at least the ones I grew up with, are awful, status-conscious, hateful things. They're much better now, but there was no love lost between me and my peers growing up. We bemoan the distractification of America, but I gotta tell you, I'm eminently grateful that I could escape those horrible little shits into a brightly colored world where practice and patience earned you reward after reward. I had books, and read the ones I had plenty, but having that Nintendo was just the greatest thing in the world for me. I've seen firsthand how technology curbs violent impulses, raises moods, defuses tense relationships. Distraction from your problems is a real, take-it-to-the-bank luxury when you have no control over your life.
- VikingCoder 11y ago
  You're not getting my point. YES, ABSOLUTELY, sometimes it boils down to knowledge. But MOST OF THE TIME, it DOESN'T. I'm not moving the goal posts. I said poor, and then you wanted to talk about people who aren't poor, but think they are, and if you educate them, it turns out they're not poor. > They're much better now Dude, not cool. Do you have a paper towel I can use to clean the milk off my screen? You just made me spit all over. And now you're moving the discussion between having KNOWLEDGE, and having TECHNOLOGY. Those are, in fact, different things. And let's just BACK UP. Let's pick that kid with a Nintendo. Which was, of course, more than 20 years ago. Is he really THAT much better off with an XBox One today? And please remember, the target we're discussing is "poor today versus RICH 20 years ago." RICH. As in, if you want it, you buy it. If you need information, you hire people who research it for you. If you are ill, you go to the best doctors in the world. RICH. In 1995. Rich in 1995 ain't too shabby. In fact, I'd say it's much better than poor in 2015.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - vinceguidry 11y ago
    > And now you're moving the discussion between having KNOWLEDGE, and having TECHNOLOGY. Those are, in fact, different things. That is, in a nutshell, the difference between 20 years ago and today. They used to be different. Now they are not. Having the technology eventually exposes you to the knowledge. Knowledge now is completely free if you live in the US, because of free access to technology. Between Wikipedia, Craigslist, various social media outlets, there is no way you can be on the Internet today and not find what you are looking for, if it's important to you, eventually. Very much not the case in the 90s. This has a direct effect on the experience of being poor. > Is he really THAT much better off with an XBox One today? Yes, because society was that much worse 20 years ago. What you were escaping was that much more awful. > Rich in 1995 ain't too shabby. In fact, I'd say it's much better than poor in 2015. I would rather be 30 and poor today, than 30 and rich in the 80s. You may disagree, but I was not very well off not that many years ago, and I was able to leapfrog what would have been decades of hustling to get where I am now, because of advantages that I wouldn't have had 30 years ago. You're right, 30 and rich in the 80s isn't too shabby. But that would mean that I would have 30 fewer years of life in today's world. You're completely discounting the value of time and over-valuing money. 30 years is an unimaginably enormous amount of time. I can get 100x the value of my time out of a year here than I could have with any amount of resources in the 80s. If I chose to be 30 and rich in 1985, that means I would be in my sixties today. Being young in today's world is worth, to me, any amount of money you can name. I'm reminded of the fact that things we find totally boring today were fine luxuries in the Middle Ages. Chairs were the domain of the medieval super-rich at one point in time. The conversation we are having right now likely could not have existed 30 years ago.

vinceguidry 11y ago

You're not quite getting my point. Sometimes the difference between being ok and standing on your own feet and being downtrodden boils down to knowledge. You're trying to move the goalposts on what 'poor' means, and you keep having to move them because the Internet makes life so much easier that you have to actually be pretty much homeless before it'll qualify for your definition of 'poor'. People like the lady in my story, when they don't have access to social contact and information, fall prey to psychopaths because they perceive they have no other options. The psychopaths take their money and their dignity and leave nothing left. Then sure, they'll fit your definition of poor. You know what was nice when I was a kid and we were bouncing around from apartment to apartment because my mom kept losing jobs? My Nintendo. My mom won the money to buy it from a radio contest and managed to convince a coworker to sell one to her. It was the only thing I wanted for Christmas that year. Children, at least the ones I grew up with, are awful, status-conscious, hateful things. They're much better now, but there was no love lost between me and my peers growing up. We bemoan the distractification of America, but I gotta tell you, I'm eminently grateful that I could escape those horrible little shits into a brightly colored world where practice and patience earned you reward after reward. I had books, and read the ones I had plenty, but having that Nintendo was just the greatest thing in the world for me. I've seen firsthand how technology curbs violent impulses, raises moods, defuses tense relationships. Distraction from your problems is a real, take-it-to-the-bank luxury when you have no control over your life.

VikingCoder 11y ago
You're not getting my point. YES, ABSOLUTELY, sometimes it boils down to knowledge. But MOST OF THE TIME, it DOESN'T. I'm not moving the goal posts. I said poor, and then you wanted to talk about people who aren't poor, but think they are, and if you educate them, it turns out they're not poor. > They're much better now Dude, not cool. Do you have a paper towel I can use to clean the milk off my screen? You just made me spit all over. And now you're moving the discussion between having KNOWLEDGE, and having TECHNOLOGY. Those are, in fact, different things. And let's just BACK UP. Let's pick that kid with a Nintendo. Which was, of course, more than 20 years ago. Is he really THAT much better off with an XBox One today? And please remember, the target we're discussing is "poor today versus RICH 20 years ago." RICH. As in, if you want it, you buy it. If you need information, you hire people who research it for you. If you are ill, you go to the best doctors in the world. RICH. In 1995. Rich in 1995 ain't too shabby. In fact, I'd say it's much better than poor in 2015.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- vinceguidry 11y ago
  > And now you're moving the discussion between having KNOWLEDGE, and having TECHNOLOGY. Those are, in fact, different things. That is, in a nutshell, the difference between 20 years ago and today. They used to be different. Now they are not. Having the technology eventually exposes you to the knowledge. Knowledge now is completely free if you live in the US, because of free access to technology. Between Wikipedia, Craigslist, various social media outlets, there is no way you can be on the Internet today and not find what you are looking for, if it's important to you, eventually. Very much not the case in the 90s. This has a direct effect on the experience of being poor. > Is he really THAT much better off with an XBox One today? Yes, because society was that much worse 20 years ago. What you were escaping was that much more awful. > Rich in 1995 ain't too shabby. In fact, I'd say it's much better than poor in 2015. I would rather be 30 and poor today, than 30 and rich in the 80s. You may disagree, but I was not very well off not that many years ago, and I was able to leapfrog what would have been decades of hustling to get where I am now, because of advantages that I wouldn't have had 30 years ago. You're right, 30 and rich in the 80s isn't too shabby. But that would mean that I would have 30 fewer years of life in today's world. You're completely discounting the value of time and over-valuing money. 30 years is an unimaginably enormous amount of time. I can get 100x the value of my time out of a year here than I could have with any amount of resources in the 80s. If I chose to be 30 and rich in 1985, that means I would be in my sixties today. Being young in today's world is worth, to me, any amount of money you can name. I'm reminded of the fact that things we find totally boring today were fine luxuries in the Middle Ages. Chairs were the domain of the medieval super-rich at one point in time. The conversation we are having right now likely could not have existed 30 years ago.