6 ms·

What with the pro-drug posts here all the time. I'm guessing that most of the HN audience is American. Is it common among techies in the U.S. to experiment with

What with the pro-drug posts here all the time. I'm guessing that most of the HN audience is American. Is it common among techies in the U.S. to experiment with psychoactive drugs, hence the interest and knowledge? Please, do not mention Steve Jobs acid experiences.

marssaxman 11y ago
It certainly is common among the techies of my acquaintance, which may explain why there is so much overlap with communities focused on arts and music.
dismal2 11y ago
are you anti-drug? if so, why?
- cpncrunch 11y ago
  I think the OP just found it curious. Turning the question around: do you think it's a good idea to screw around with your brain using something like ketamine (other than in a controlled way, such as a clinical trial or under guidance from a doctor)?
  - user_0001 11y ago
    yes. Everyone should experience the k-hole
    - isolate 11y ago
      What if you have a psychotic disorder? Prevalence is ~3%.
      - Synaesthesia 11y ago
        Many drugs can precipitate a psychotic episode, including stimluants, psychedelics, even Alcohol. It's a risk you take when you take drugs but can be mitigated if you known what to expect and have support. Ketamine I don't think has a huge problem with this compared to other drugs. It may be a bit of a bizarre experience but not often a tramuatizing one.
        cpncrunch 11y ago
        I'm just not sure what the advantage is. I don't take alcohol, other than the occasional beer/wine, as I don't particularly like the effects. Same for smoking/caffeine/pot. I have much better experiences with real-life, such as flying planes, climbing mountains, etc. I understand LSD and ketamine are going to give a kind of the experience you can't get in real-life, but screwing around with your brain to achieve it doesn't really seem to be worth the risk IMO. I've managed to completely screw up my brain once in my life (severe suidical depression / CFS) without any help from any mind-altering substances, so to be honest I'm not really sure it's a good idea to be screwing around with your neurotransmitters like that. It's like trying to make your zx81 do something cool by randomly poking memory locations or wobbling the 16k RAM pack.
        isolate 11y ago
        I mean if you already have a psychotic disorder, is it a good idea to experience the k-hole (high dose of ketamine)? With or without antipsychotics? What about a low dose? For example, would you recommend that someone with schizophrenia try it?
- lilcarlyung 11y ago
  Not in the "War on Drugs" sense. Each to his own. And one can't argue with evident medical benefits, right? As for recreational use, mind expanding substances can offer wonderful insights into the world and oneself. But to actually change anything, one has to internalize and act on those insights and this can only be done with a sober brain. I've met too many people who get hooked on getting more and more insights, instead of making a reality of what they've learned. They themselves think they are changing for the better but their actions show that they are still the same.
Igglyboo 11y ago
It is very common in my experience. Google, Microsoft, Apple, and every tech company I've ever applied to (even small midwestern shops) do not drug test. The FBI has a problem hiring good security experts because of their strict drug testing policies. http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304422704579574374286817550 http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014240527023044227045795743...
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- tyleroconnell 11y ago
  I have personally experienced a drug test with a technology company for a pre-employment screening, and heard of others that do the same. The company gave ample notice, but I don't think it's fair to paint a picture where drug tests are non-existent within tech.
  - kafkaesq 11y ago
    Right -- the stance against drug testing is common among tech companies, but not universal. There are many tech companies, like Pivotal Labs, that love drug testing.
- adrice727 11y ago
  Strangely enough, the Department of Defense doesn't drug test (most) new employees.
- kaybe 11y ago
  Are employer drugtests common in the US, even for non-critical work?
  - byuu 11y ago
    Yes, very much so. Aside from fast food, pretty much all jobs I've ever had required them (including retail and grocery.)
  - 11y ago
fossuser 11y ago
I'd guess that more than half of people I know in tech have tried or occasionally do psychedelic drugs (LSD, Psilocybin, MDMA). There does seem to be a correlation with an interest in them and computers going all the way back to the beginning. If you're interested in the history I found What the Dormouse Said to be pretty interesting. http://www.amazon.com/What-Dormouse-Said-Counterculture-Personal/dp/0143036769 http://www.amazon.com/What-Dormouse-Said-Counterculture-Pers...
- cypherpunks01 11y ago
  Much like the old quote 'two big things came out of Berkeley CA - LSD and BSD, and we don't believe this to be a coincidence'. Not technically true, but I believe the spirit is right. Francis Crick, Kary Mullis, Steve Jobs, Feynman, and many other of the most well known scientists and engineers of the past 50 years have gotten such a personal and creative benefit from psychedelics that they have publicly spoken about it despite their schedule 1 status.
pazimzadeh 11y ago
You could say that drugs are a way to "hack" the brain.
meowface 11y ago
Is it uncommon in other countries? It's definitely very popular for Americans under the age of 30 to experiment with many kinds of drugs.
jganetsk 11y ago
Interesting generalization. Do you have any evidence that Americans are more "pro-drug" than average? Do you think Americans actually consume more drugs, or just that they suffer from less drug stigma in their society?
- lilcarlyung 11y ago
  American intellectuals and higher eds experiment more with and stigmatize less the use of mind altering substances. This is strictly a personal observation though, not necessarily a fact.

marssaxman 11y ago

It certainly is common among the techies of my acquaintance, which may explain why there is so much overlap with communities focused on arts and music.

dismal2 11y ago

are you anti-drug? if so, why?

cpncrunch 11y ago
I think the OP just found it curious. Turning the question around: do you think it's a good idea to screw around with your brain using something like ketamine (other than in a controlled way, such as a clinical trial or under guidance from a doctor)?
- user_0001 11y ago
  yes. Everyone should experience the k-hole
  - isolate 11y ago
    What if you have a psychotic disorder? Prevalence is ~3%.
    - Synaesthesia 11y ago
      Many drugs can precipitate a psychotic episode, including stimluants, psychedelics, even Alcohol. It's a risk you take when you take drugs but can be mitigated if you known what to expect and have support. Ketamine I don't think has a huge problem with this compared to other drugs. It may be a bit of a bizarre experience but not often a tramuatizing one.
      - cpncrunch 11y ago
        I'm just not sure what the advantage is. I don't take alcohol, other than the occasional beer/wine, as I don't particularly like the effects. Same for smoking/caffeine/pot. I have much better experiences with real-life, such as flying planes, climbing mountains, etc. I understand LSD and ketamine are going to give a kind of the experience you can't get in real-life, but screwing around with your brain to achieve it doesn't really seem to be worth the risk IMO. I've managed to completely screw up my brain once in my life (severe suidical depression / CFS) without any help from any mind-altering substances, so to be honest I'm not really sure it's a good idea to be screwing around with your neurotransmitters like that. It's like trying to make your zx81 do something cool by randomly poking memory locations or wobbling the 16k RAM pack.
      - isolate 11y ago
        I mean if you already have a psychotic disorder, is it a good idea to experience the k-hole (high dose of ketamine)? With or without antipsychotics? What about a low dose? For example, would you recommend that someone with schizophrenia try it?
lilcarlyung 11y ago
Not in the "War on Drugs" sense. Each to his own. And one can't argue with evident medical benefits, right? As for recreational use, mind expanding substances can offer wonderful insights into the world and oneself. But to actually change anything, one has to internalize and act on those insights and this can only be done with a sober brain. I've met too many people who get hooked on getting more and more insights, instead of making a reality of what they've learned. They themselves think they are changing for the better but their actions show that they are still the same.

Igglyboo 11y ago

It is very common in my experience. Google, Microsoft, Apple, and every tech company I've ever applied to (even small midwestern shops) do not drug test. The FBI has a problem hiring good security experts because of their strict drug testing policies. http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304422704579574374286817550 http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014240527023044227045795743...

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
tyleroconnell 11y ago
I have personally experienced a drug test with a technology company for a pre-employment screening, and heard of others that do the same. The company gave ample notice, but I don't think it's fair to paint a picture where drug tests are non-existent within tech.
- kafkaesq 11y ago
  Right -- the stance against drug testing is common among tech companies, but not universal. There are many tech companies, like Pivotal Labs, that love drug testing.
adrice727 11y ago
Strangely enough, the Department of Defense doesn't drug test (most) new employees.
kaybe 11y ago
Are employer drugtests common in the US, even for non-critical work?
- byuu 11y ago
  Yes, very much so. Aside from fast food, pretty much all jobs I've ever had required them (including retail and grocery.)
- 11y ago

fossuser 11y ago

I'd guess that more than half of people I know in tech have tried or occasionally do psychedelic drugs (LSD, Psilocybin, MDMA). There does seem to be a correlation with an interest in them and computers going all the way back to the beginning. If you're interested in the history I found What the Dormouse Said to be pretty interesting. http://www.amazon.com/What-Dormouse-Said-Counterculture-Personal/dp/0143036769 http://www.amazon.com/What-Dormouse-Said-Counterculture-Pers...

cypherpunks01 11y ago
Much like the old quote 'two big things came out of Berkeley CA - LSD and BSD, and we don't believe this to be a coincidence'. Not technically true, but I believe the spirit is right. Francis Crick, Kary Mullis, Steve Jobs, Feynman, and many other of the most well known scientists and engineers of the past 50 years have gotten such a personal and creative benefit from psychedelics that they have publicly spoken about it despite their schedule 1 status.

pazimzadeh 11y ago

You could say that drugs are a way to "hack" the brain.

meowface 11y ago

Is it uncommon in other countries? It's definitely very popular for Americans under the age of 30 to experiment with many kinds of drugs.

jganetsk 11y ago

Interesting generalization. Do you have any evidence that Americans are more "pro-drug" than average? Do you think Americans actually consume more drugs, or just that they suffer from less drug stigma in their society?

lilcarlyung 11y ago
American intellectuals and higher eds experiment more with and stigmatize less the use of mind altering substances. This is strictly a personal observation though, not necessarily a fact.