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Well, there's really no corresponding data for many other markets . Facebook and Google don't really do Work From Home and don't have a lot of remote locations

Well, there's really no corresponding data for many other markets . Facebook and Google don't really do Work From Home and don't have a lot of remote locations for development depending on where you are. (Amazon is another example). I don't know what they offer datacenter staff, but in many areas, recruiters are pretty adamant about people moving. From my experience, say, the North Carolina scene, you're lucky if you are going to get $120-ish with ten years of experience. There's some give or take, but includes large companies and banks. You can do a little better at something like a Cisco if you are willing to trade quality of work. Most big companies as well as startups are paying new grads somewhere in the low-high 60s or maybe 50s depending on where. I don't have hard data, but it's no where near $130k. Data from cost of living comparison sites that some companies use indicates that these companies hiring someone in the bay area may pay those people 20% more for cost of living at most. Startups pay substantially less on average, with senior level personnel getting around $100k, maybe $120k if you're excellent and the startup is well funded - but this is 10 years of experience kind of stuff. I have unfortunately had to turn down some great folks because they wanted north of that - and they were worth it. I've also seen companies where their maximum pay tier tops out at 135 for what amounts to principle engineer level positions. (I'd assume a fellow at IBM would do better, but they are uncommon and few have a chance of surviving the machine to get there). Conversely, really senior level software development positions at basically-exit-ready startups in CA aren't going to be much better than 40-50% better than the above. Some of these can be obtained remotely - sometimes. What the article states as common for Google and Facebook are absolutely not the norm, and I'm not really sure how achievable that is for most people even there. It's great if Google/Facebook can allow to pay people that, definitely. I just wouldn't say it's even remotely common and does not translate. I've heard some ancedotal completely crazy numbers from hedge funds that most people would hate working for elsewhere, but nothing nearing the numbers in this article. I don't really have hard data on the New York software scene or Texas, but .. again, this isn't normal. HN may be more of a microcosm than expected if most people do feel this is normal. To put it in perspective, this is still amazingly high compared to a lot of other positions and you'd still have it really good.

jbeda 11y ago
> Facebook and Google don't really do Work From Home and don't have a lot of remote locations for development depending on where they are. I don't know what they offer datacenter staff, but in many areas, that's all they have for "not CA". This is just untrue. I haven't looked closely at Facebook recently (beyond watching the [office in Seattle](http://www.geekwire.com/2015/sneak-peek-facebook-plans-epic-rooftop-park-with-walking-trails-and-giant-fire-pit-at-new-seattle-office/ http://www.geekwire.com/2015/sneak-peek-facebook-plans-epic-...) grow quickly) but traditionally Google has had ~50% eng in MTV and the rest spread out. NY is the second largest office but Seattle and Bangalore are pretty big. Seattle (and Kirkland) are now at ~2000 people (https://twitter.com/juberti/status/675022362438316032 https://twitter.com/juberti/status/675022362438316032).
- mpdehaan2 11y ago
  It's completely accurate - hence the location part. If you sought to add clarification, the first sentence was unneccessary. Let's confine this to "they won't hire in most of the Continental United States". Even for exceptional candidates, remote is also completely out of the question for them. That's obviously their right and I don't hold them against them. (But it's worth contrasting with someone like Red Hat, who will hire someone from anywhere if they are awesome). I have had lots of experience with Google and Amazon recruiters where CA was the only viable option. Google also tended to have a bad habit of offering SRE positions for datacenters in the sticks, but that was not a development-flavored SRE thing in the least. They pretty much close the door on you if you don't want to move and are dropping the ball on some pretty awesome development centers IMHO. Facebook is often avoided by some very sharp kernel (and other) folks, because they greatly insist on a boot camp and can't guarantee what department you are going to work for. They lost some brilliant folks as a result. I wouldn't work for them for that reason, as I think the team and the manager are the most important parts of the hiring decision. Yes, Google has other offices, but they are not hiring people in some pretty darn major development regions. There is allegeldy an office in Chapel Hill for instance, but it seems to be on the edge of being decomissioned and no recruiter will tell you anything about it. So, yeah, it's not quite like you can just work anywhere.

jbeda 11y ago

> Facebook and Google don't really do Work From Home and don't have a lot of remote locations for development depending on where they are. I don't know what they offer datacenter staff, but in many areas, that's all they have for "not CA". This is just untrue. I haven't looked closely at Facebook recently (beyond watching the [office in Seattle](http://www.geekwire.com/2015/sneak-peek-facebook-plans-epic-rooftop-park-with-walking-trails-and-giant-fire-pit-at-new-seattle-office/ http://www.geekwire.com/2015/sneak-peek-facebook-plans-epic-...) grow quickly) but traditionally Google has had ~50% eng in MTV and the rest spread out. NY is the second largest office but Seattle and Bangalore are pretty big. Seattle (and Kirkland) are now at ~2000 people (https://twitter.com/juberti/status/675022362438316032 https://twitter.com/juberti/status/675022362438316032).

mpdehaan2 11y ago
It's completely accurate - hence the location part. If you sought to add clarification, the first sentence was unneccessary. Let's confine this to "they won't hire in most of the Continental United States". Even for exceptional candidates, remote is also completely out of the question for them. That's obviously their right and I don't hold them against them. (But it's worth contrasting with someone like Red Hat, who will hire someone from anywhere if they are awesome). I have had lots of experience with Google and Amazon recruiters where CA was the only viable option. Google also tended to have a bad habit of offering SRE positions for datacenters in the sticks, but that was not a development-flavored SRE thing in the least. They pretty much close the door on you if you don't want to move and are dropping the ball on some pretty awesome development centers IMHO. Facebook is often avoided by some very sharp kernel (and other) folks, because they greatly insist on a boot camp and can't guarantee what department you are going to work for. They lost some brilliant folks as a result. I wouldn't work for them for that reason, as I think the team and the manager are the most important parts of the hiring decision. Yes, Google has other offices, but they are not hiring people in some pretty darn major development regions. There is allegeldy an office in Chapel Hill for instance, but it seems to be on the edge of being decomissioned and no recruiter will tell you anything about it. So, yeah, it's not quite like you can just work anywhere.