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>Come back with a book that examines actual free markets and we'll talk. Do you have any examples of "actual" free markets?

by ksk 11y ago

hackerboos 11y ago
Nope. The 2 countries (microstates?) that are often touted as free-markets are Hong Kong SAR and Singapore. Hong Kong, which is widely applauded by neo-Liberal economist Milton Friedman for it's low taxation and hands off regulation, has a hidden secret, they raise most of their revenue from land leases. To clarify, in Hong Kong the only piece of freehold land belongs to Saint John's Cathedral. > Article 7 of the Basic Law of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (HKSAR) stipulates that the land and natural resources within HKSAR shall be state property. Same goes for Singapore, they meddle continuously in the real estate economy through the HDB. Ethnic quotas in state owned buildings ensure Singapore's racial harmony. It's questionable whether either country could survive without their neighbors (China and Malaysia) whom they import most of their goods from.
cmurf 11y ago
Part of that would be no protectionism. I seriously doubt that most in the HN community are big fans of e.g. the H-1B visa program. And yet a free market would not have an H-1B program because in such a market anyone anywhere would be hireable strictly upon the discretion of the employer. The H-1B program itself is an intervention. The reality is that you cannot have completely free markets in a democracy. As soon as a signifcant minority (let alone majority) do not like the market's outcome, they will petition a legislative alternative to that outcome. So of course there's going to be a hybrid system. Is there any 1st world country with a less interventionist government in economics than the U.S.? There are plenty of 3rd world countries where there's no regulation at all, I don't see entrepreneurship flourishing there, rather it's exploitation, and might makes right.
- ksk 11y ago
  >As soon as a signifcant minority (let alone majority) do not like the market's outcome, they will petition a legislative alternative to that outcome. But that presupposes that the populous would dislike the free market's outcome, which if anything points to the idea that free markets are unworkable in a practical sense.
vezzy-fnord 11y ago
Probably the closest measure is the Index of Economic Freedom, with the caveat that the ranking method is imprecise: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_Economic_Freedom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_Economic_Freedom Interestingly, Denmark and Canada surpass the United States, according to the IEF. I was aware the former has the least regulated banking sector, but not much beyond that.

>Come back with a book that examines actual free markets and we'll talk. Do you have any examples of "actual" free markets?

by ksk 11y ago

>Come back with a book that examines actual free markets and we'll talk. Do you have any examples of "actual" free markets?

hackerboos 11y ago

Nope. The 2 countries (microstates?) that are often touted as free-markets are Hong Kong SAR and Singapore. Hong Kong, which is widely applauded by neo-Liberal economist Milton Friedman for it's low taxation and hands off regulation, has a hidden secret, they raise most of their revenue from land leases. To clarify, in Hong Kong the only piece of freehold land belongs to Saint John's Cathedral. > Article 7 of the Basic Law of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (HKSAR) stipulates that the land and natural resources within HKSAR shall be state property. Same goes for Singapore, they meddle continuously in the real estate economy through the HDB. Ethnic quotas in state owned buildings ensure Singapore's racial harmony. It's questionable whether either country could survive without their neighbors (China and Malaysia) whom they import most of their goods from.

cmurf 11y ago

Part of that would be no protectionism. I seriously doubt that most in the HN community are big fans of e.g. the H-1B visa program. And yet a free market would not have an H-1B program because in such a market anyone anywhere would be hireable strictly upon the discretion of the employer. The H-1B program itself is an intervention. The reality is that you cannot have completely free markets in a democracy. As soon as a signifcant minority (let alone majority) do not like the market's outcome, they will petition a legislative alternative to that outcome. So of course there's going to be a hybrid system. Is there any 1st world country with a less interventionist government in economics than the U.S.? There are plenty of 3rd world countries where there's no regulation at all, I don't see entrepreneurship flourishing there, rather it's exploitation, and might makes right.

ksk 11y ago
>As soon as a signifcant minority (let alone majority) do not like the market's outcome, they will petition a legislative alternative to that outcome. But that presupposes that the populous would dislike the free market's outcome, which if anything points to the idea that free markets are unworkable in a practical sense.

vezzy-fnord 11y ago

Probably the closest measure is the Index of Economic Freedom, with the caveat that the ranking method is imprecise: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_Economic_Freedom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_Economic_Freedom Interestingly, Denmark and Canada surpass the United States, according to the IEF. I was aware the former has the least regulated banking sector, but not much beyond that.