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That this is currently the top comment reinforces the author's hypothesis that many software engineers underestimate how much they could make at a large company

by mrshoe 11y ago

That this is currently the top comment reinforces the author's hypothesis that many software engineers underestimate how much they could make at a large company. > 250k a year in 5 years at a big corporation, really? Yes, really. > Yea if you're lucky to work on a project/team higher-ups care about and are also willing to bust your ass working long hours to meet insane deadlines. Nope, not true. > So I think this article is spreading a myth that there is guaranteed piles of money to be made by working at Google, Facebook, Apple, etc. Have you worked at Google, Facebook, or Apple for 5 years? If you do, and you're a decent programmer (not a rock star, but a solid contributor), you'll find there are guaranteed piles of money to be made.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
lcr94 11y ago
This style of reply is not constructive. How can we know with certainty whether or not you have a reasonable shot at making 250k/year after five years of working at Apple, Amazon, Google, or Microsoft? Provide an anecdote, links to articles, etc.
- cbr 11y ago
  Anecdote: I've been at one of those companies for three years, and made about $250k this year.
- chris11 11y ago
  I'm currently still in school, and I personally don't know anyone who is making $250k/year five years into their career. But I have seen new grad offers that make that number seem reasonable. One of my friends is a really smart developer who got several offers from places competitive with those companies. I don't think they really had much full-time work experience. The first year total comp in one of their offers was around $200k. A 25% compensation increase over five years seems reasonable to me. Edit: It does kind of depend on how you value stock/RSUs in your compensation package. Most of the offers they got were from public companies that were well run. So I personally would not be extremely worried about the stock losing most of its value before I was able to sell.
- throwaway_goog 11y ago
  Throwaway because I don't want my salary history to become public. I spent 5 years at Google. My AGI (as measured by the IRS) during my time there went $130K, $200K, $280K, $280K, $300K, $356K (for my last 5 months there...it also includes unexercised stock options for the last 5 years, though). The bump to $280K was upon promotion to senior SWE; the one to $200K was largely because of a generous stock refresh grant.
  - throwawayabcer 11y ago
    Also throwaway for obvious reasons. What you say sounds totally in line with my experience: I am Senior SWE at an Alphabet company. Came to MTV in middle of 2015 from a company in the midwest where I made over $200K last year (much of this was profit-sharing bonus), and I was definitely at top of the market for my city. My total compensation for this coming year (based on current value of GOOG, obviously this can vary) is projected in the mid-$300Ks. (Some of this is initial GSUs vesting, so it's slightly inflated). With the difference in cost-of-living it should be about equivalent to where I was last year. Too soon for first refresh grant, so I can't speculate about where it may go from there. I've already gotten a larger raise and bonus than I expected, seeing as I negotiated a better offer than they originally gave me. My manager has been talking with me about what I need to do to get to promoted Staff level. So yes, there is money to be made in SV, at big companies.
    - throwaway_g3 11y ago
      One more datapoint from Google (non-Bay Area office): $75k (partial year), $182k, $254k, $360k and then I left for a start-up where my total package is $50k. No less happy :-)
      - 142535 11y ago
        That is because you have shitloads of cash.
    - throwawaysf123 11y ago
      what part of the stack did/do you work on (machine learning/AI, infra, web services/APIs, frontend, other)?
- rockinghigh 11y ago
  If you're talking about total compensation, 250k is on the low end. Base of $140-190k is common. Add to that $10-30k of cash bonus and $100k of stocks.
  - sanderjd 11y ago
    One thing I'm always curious about: most of these discussions seem to be targeted at college grads, discussing where they could be after their first 5 years in the industry. The sense I've gotten is that these big companies tend to compensate all new hires approximately the same, caring little about experience outside their company or perhaps one of the other big companies. It seems to me that smaller, less well known, companies are more hungry for experienced people, because they are relatively starved of people who can drive architecture, decision making, and hiring, and are thus more willing to take a risk on paying a premium for experience. So my question is: stipulating that the numbers favor bigcos for fresh graduates, is the same true for people who already have that 5 (or 8, or 15, or 20) years of experience elsewhere?
    - thedufer 11y ago
      At 3.5 years of experience Google offered me about double what I'm hearing for new grad total comp, so it seems that they value at least the first few years. Given the oft-cited ageism in the industry, I expect that tails off pretty quickly. I wouldn't be surprised if 10 years of experience wasn't worth noticeably more than 5 years.
  - umanwizard 11y ago
    People get $100k of stocks a year? As in, not RSUs - vested stocks? I suspect you're confusing the two, though I admit I'm not certain
    - phamilton 11y ago
      RSUs are stocks. A grant of 1 RSU means that on the date it vests, the company will buy 1 share of its stock and drop it into your account at a major brokerage. It's considered compensation and taxed as income, though it's often withheld as bonus income.
- ChuckMcM 11y ago
  I suspect its pretty certain, it certainly held true when I was working there and that was before Google was 50K employees. The flip side though is you may not make it to 5 years. A lot of employees don't (which is less commonly talked about) but Google has always tried pretty hard to not retain people who weren't providing what they considered an appropriate level of contribution. So if you start working at Google, and you make it to 5 years, then yes I'm sure you'll be making $250k+ total compensation.
  - Jabbles 11y ago
    > A lot of employees don't And what is your evidence for that? I hope it's not an estimate for the average time an engineer has been at Google, which is clearly not the same thing.
    - ChuckMcM 11y ago
      I don't know if it is still true but there was a lot of data available during the 4 years I was there to watch this in "real time". Lots of data sources and a number of people interested in the question. You couldn't easily pull apart terms vs quits but at the end of the day it amounted to the same thing.
- fbthrowaway1776 11y ago
  At FB, my first job out of college, my W2 income was: 110k (started midway through the year), 300k, 350k.
  - foobarqux 11y ago
    Harvard/Stanford/MIT?
    - fbthrowaway1776 11y ago
      No
- superuser2 11y ago
  Yes it is, because its relative placement in the thread serves as a sort of poll on whether it rings true to people's experiences.
- ryguytilidie 11y ago
  How is it any less constructive than the person he is replying to...?
- fbthrowaway9479 11y ago
  Here's what my comp has looked like at FB over the years: 2012: ~75k (internship + first half of sign on bonus + relocation bonus) 2013: ~100k (salary for ~6 months + second half of sign on bonus) 2014: ~225k (~110k base salary + stock) 2015: ~265k (~130k base salary + stock) I believe myself to be around average. From what I've heard about some of my peers' comp they sound comparable to this as well.
- fb_throwitaway1 11y ago
  After college, 2 years of startup @ $90k, worthless stock (one of the first employees), long hours. Learned a lot, but definitely underpaid in stock. FB @ 2014 - $230k/yr = $150k base + $50k stock / yr + $30k bonus. FB @ 2015 - $480k/yr = $200k base + $200k stock / yr + ~$80k bonus. Getting into the senior levels at FB/GOOG does indeed get you 250k+ easy. Friends at FB who joined the same day as me, but fresh out of college: $200k+ / yr right now.
dreaminvm 11y ago
Firstly, everyone not working in the Bay Area can ignore these figures because they are bloated due to cost of living (3K for 1BR/1BA apartment) and competition for talent (from startups and peers). Secondly, people are ignoring the fact that RSUs at the 3 companies mentioned (and a few others AMZN/MSFT) have grown substantially in the past 5 years (about 125-150% on average) and is the biggest factor in these "surreal" figures. Broken down into base (110k starting common at BigCorp), RSUs (initially 100-150K over 4 years) and bonus (10-20% base comp ), these numbers would make more sense. First year total comp is close to 145K-170K. By the time you are a senior engineer (mid-level) and assuming this took 5 years, your base comp is close to 135-160K, with refresher grants (and accounting for market performance) your RSUs probably hit 100K/year, bonuses at 30K bringing total comp to 265K-290K. I happen to work for a BigCorp in SV (close to 1.5 years now) whose stock is performing poorly, hence my total comp is 160K (110K base, 25K bonus, 25K in RSUs/year). But if we had FB/AMZN/NFLX type of stock performance, then my comp would shoot up to 185K without any promotions.
- wdmeldon 11y ago
  Location is one of the core factors of this article. I'm 3 years into my career and still make less than half the starting rate at BigCorp in SV.
  - samstave 11y ago
    How much is your rent?
- d4rkph1b3r 11y ago
  Err, this is not accurate from my experience. I work at a large company (not one of the 'big 4 tech though) ,remote, in a medium cost of living locale and my salary is what your total comp is. I would get a huge jump if I went to one of the big 4 in the bay area.
  - dreaminvm 11y ago
    Forgot to note that I am fresh out of college.

by mrshoe 11y ago

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

lcr94 11y ago

This style of reply is not constructive. How can we know with certainty whether or not you have a reasonable shot at making 250k/year after five years of working at Apple, Amazon, Google, or Microsoft? Provide an anecdote, links to articles, etc.

cbr 11y ago
Anecdote: I've been at one of those companies for three years, and made about $250k this year.
chris11 11y ago
I'm currently still in school, and I personally don't know anyone who is making $250k/year five years into their career. But I have seen new grad offers that make that number seem reasonable. One of my friends is a really smart developer who got several offers from places competitive with those companies. I don't think they really had much full-time work experience. The first year total comp in one of their offers was around $200k. A 25% compensation increase over five years seems reasonable to me. Edit: It does kind of depend on how you value stock/RSUs in your compensation package. Most of the offers they got were from public companies that were well run. So I personally would not be extremely worried about the stock losing most of its value before I was able to sell.
throwaway_goog 11y ago
Throwaway because I don't want my salary history to become public. I spent 5 years at Google. My AGI (as measured by the IRS) during my time there went $130K, $200K, $280K, $280K, $300K, $356K (for my last 5 months there...it also includes unexercised stock options for the last 5 years, though). The bump to $280K was upon promotion to senior SWE; the one to $200K was largely because of a generous stock refresh grant.
- throwawayabcer 11y ago
  Also throwaway for obvious reasons. What you say sounds totally in line with my experience: I am Senior SWE at an Alphabet company. Came to MTV in middle of 2015 from a company in the midwest where I made over $200K last year (much of this was profit-sharing bonus), and I was definitely at top of the market for my city. My total compensation for this coming year (based on current value of GOOG, obviously this can vary) is projected in the mid-$300Ks. (Some of this is initial GSUs vesting, so it's slightly inflated). With the difference in cost-of-living it should be about equivalent to where I was last year. Too soon for first refresh grant, so I can't speculate about where it may go from there. I've already gotten a larger raise and bonus than I expected, seeing as I negotiated a better offer than they originally gave me. My manager has been talking with me about what I need to do to get to promoted Staff level. So yes, there is money to be made in SV, at big companies.
  - throwaway_g3 11y ago
    One more datapoint from Google (non-Bay Area office): $75k (partial year), $182k, $254k, $360k and then I left for a start-up where my total package is $50k. No less happy :-)
    - 142535 11y ago
      That is because you have shitloads of cash.
  - throwawaysf123 11y ago
    what part of the stack did/do you work on (machine learning/AI, infra, web services/APIs, frontend, other)?
rockinghigh 11y ago
If you're talking about total compensation, 250k is on the low end. Base of $140-190k is common. Add to that $10-30k of cash bonus and $100k of stocks.
- sanderjd 11y ago
  One thing I'm always curious about: most of these discussions seem to be targeted at college grads, discussing where they could be after their first 5 years in the industry. The sense I've gotten is that these big companies tend to compensate all new hires approximately the same, caring little about experience outside their company or perhaps one of the other big companies. It seems to me that smaller, less well known, companies are more hungry for experienced people, because they are relatively starved of people who can drive architecture, decision making, and hiring, and are thus more willing to take a risk on paying a premium for experience. So my question is: stipulating that the numbers favor bigcos for fresh graduates, is the same true for people who already have that 5 (or 8, or 15, or 20) years of experience elsewhere?
  - thedufer 11y ago
    At 3.5 years of experience Google offered me about double what I'm hearing for new grad total comp, so it seems that they value at least the first few years. Given the oft-cited ageism in the industry, I expect that tails off pretty quickly. I wouldn't be surprised if 10 years of experience wasn't worth noticeably more than 5 years.
- umanwizard 11y ago
  People get $100k of stocks a year? As in, not RSUs - vested stocks? I suspect you're confusing the two, though I admit I'm not certain
  - phamilton 11y ago
    RSUs are stocks. A grant of 1 RSU means that on the date it vests, the company will buy 1 share of its stock and drop it into your account at a major brokerage. It's considered compensation and taxed as income, though it's often withheld as bonus income.
ChuckMcM 11y ago
I suspect its pretty certain, it certainly held true when I was working there and that was before Google was 50K employees. The flip side though is you may not make it to 5 years. A lot of employees don't (which is less commonly talked about) but Google has always tried pretty hard to not retain people who weren't providing what they considered an appropriate level of contribution. So if you start working at Google, and you make it to 5 years, then yes I'm sure you'll be making $250k+ total compensation.
- Jabbles 11y ago
  > A lot of employees don't And what is your evidence for that? I hope it's not an estimate for the average time an engineer has been at Google, which is clearly not the same thing.
  - ChuckMcM 11y ago
    I don't know if it is still true but there was a lot of data available during the 4 years I was there to watch this in "real time". Lots of data sources and a number of people interested in the question. You couldn't easily pull apart terms vs quits but at the end of the day it amounted to the same thing.
fbthrowaway1776 11y ago
At FB, my first job out of college, my W2 income was: 110k (started midway through the year), 300k, 350k.
- foobarqux 11y ago
  Harvard/Stanford/MIT?
  - fbthrowaway1776 11y ago
    No
superuser2 11y ago
Yes it is, because its relative placement in the thread serves as a sort of poll on whether it rings true to people's experiences.
ryguytilidie 11y ago
How is it any less constructive than the person he is replying to...?
fbthrowaway9479 11y ago
Here's what my comp has looked like at FB over the years: 2012: ~75k (internship + first half of sign on bonus + relocation bonus) 2013: ~100k (salary for ~6 months + second half of sign on bonus) 2014: ~225k (~110k base salary + stock) 2015: ~265k (~130k base salary + stock) I believe myself to be around average. From what I've heard about some of my peers' comp they sound comparable to this as well.
fb_throwitaway1 11y ago
After college, 2 years of startup @ $90k, worthless stock (one of the first employees), long hours. Learned a lot, but definitely underpaid in stock. FB @ 2014 - $230k/yr = $150k base + $50k stock / yr + $30k bonus. FB @ 2015 - $480k/yr = $200k base + $200k stock / yr + ~$80k bonus. Getting into the senior levels at FB/GOOG does indeed get you 250k+ easy. Friends at FB who joined the same day as me, but fresh out of college: $200k+ / yr right now.

dreaminvm 11y ago

Firstly, everyone not working in the Bay Area can ignore these figures because they are bloated due to cost of living (3K for 1BR/1BA apartment) and competition for talent (from startups and peers). Secondly, people are ignoring the fact that RSUs at the 3 companies mentioned (and a few others AMZN/MSFT) have grown substantially in the past 5 years (about 125-150% on average) and is the biggest factor in these "surreal" figures. Broken down into base (110k starting common at BigCorp), RSUs (initially 100-150K over 4 years) and bonus (10-20% base comp ), these numbers would make more sense. First year total comp is close to 145K-170K. By the time you are a senior engineer (mid-level) and assuming this took 5 years, your base comp is close to 135-160K, with refresher grants (and accounting for market performance) your RSUs probably hit 100K/year, bonuses at 30K bringing total comp to 265K-290K. I happen to work for a BigCorp in SV (close to 1.5 years now) whose stock is performing poorly, hence my total comp is 160K (110K base, 25K bonus, 25K in RSUs/year). But if we had FB/AMZN/NFLX type of stock performance, then my comp would shoot up to 185K without any promotions.

wdmeldon 11y ago
Location is one of the core factors of this article. I'm 3 years into my career and still make less than half the starting rate at BigCorp in SV.
- samstave 11y ago
  How much is your rent?
d4rkph1b3r 11y ago
Err, this is not accurate from my experience. I work at a large company (not one of the 'big 4 tech though) ,remote, in a medium cost of living locale and my salary is what your total comp is. I would get a huge jump if I went to one of the big 4 in the bay area.
- dreaminvm 11y ago
  Forgot to note that I am fresh out of college.