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500% ? What field? I'm in Canada and earning a good wage. I could go to some hellish place like NY and live in a cardboard box and up my wage 50% (and work long

500% ? What field? I'm in Canada and earning a good wage. I could go to some hellish place like NY and live in a cardboard box and up my wage 50% (and work longer hours, with less holidays so less time with my kids). I don't see 500% as a likely pay gap for most.

potatolicious 11y ago
I'm in iOS dev. > "I could go to some hellish place like NY and live in a cardboard box and up my wage 50% (and work longer hours, with less holidays so less time with my kids)." I hear this a lot from Canadian colleagues who stay in Canada, and I dunno, it always irks me a little bit. Increasing your wage doesn't necessarily entail longer hours or fewer holidays. It seems like it's a popular perception in Canada to imagine all US jobs as some kind of hellish sweatshop where you're chained to your desk all day in exchange for more money - but in reality the spread of job quality is the same here as it is in some place like Toronto or Vancouver. You will find the same shitty sweatshop jobs and you will find great jobs - the pay increase seems entirely orthogonal to that. The market rate is simply higher - much higher, across the board.
- branchless 11y ago
  But not 500%, I'm quite sure. I think large urban centers generally have longer working hours. Such as NY and London. Typically the living quarters are smaller, the commute is longer and the culture is more "you shall be here until at least 6pm because you live to work". Not everywhere, but on average.
  - potatolicious 11y ago
    I'm in NY, my office is empty at 9am, mostly full at 10am, starts emptying at 5pm, and is mostly deserted by 6pm. People work from home all the time, and leaving early is entirely accepted and even encouraged. This feels like it lines up with, well, everywhere else. I've had 4 jobs in this city and this has been the case with every single one, and they've ranged from tech megacorps to startups. This isn't some pressure-cooker investment banking job... I feel like your impression of NY tech (I can't speak to London) is drawn from stereotypes more than reality. I've worked also in Toronto and the work expectations do not feel much different - if anything it feels a bit more lax here in NYC than TO. > "But not 500%, I'm quite sure." I dunno, what do you think an iOS developer with ~4 years of experience fetches in Toronto or Vancouver? Let's say total comp (i.e., salary, any guaranteed bonuses, public stock).
    - branchless 11y ago
      I'm afraid this is anecdata. I'd expect a dev with ~4 years most places to not get that much. The how much doesn't matter, it's the idea that you get 500% that is clearly nuts. I mean - why would firms not be queuing up to cut their wages by 80% in the same timezone? Makes zero sense and doesn't accord with any figures. Also it's not a sane comparison at the start of your career. You have ~2 years then move and have ~4 years and your salary went up? Is that location related or related to the fact that you are now actually useful instead of learning the ropes? Avg developer salary in the US is ~80k. So to meet your 500% dev in Canada would be earning less than part-time hot-dog sellers. I work with people in NY every day. They work longer hours. I think if you asked most tech in big cities if their day is longer they'd agree.
serge2k 11y ago
My take home in Seattle is ~2.3 times what I made in BC. That's not including stock and bonuses either. Granted my rent has gone up by a factor of 3.5, but after paying rent I've still got double the money leftover. Other things are cheaper too. Now of course there is a couple years experience vs when I was in BC, but I would still probably be close to double.
- branchless 11y ago
  Ok it's working for you then. I think with housing costs factored in plus the net pay as the pay increase is taxed at a higher rate, plus quality of life issues make it less appealing. In the main I'm talking about "world cities" where the big finance firms launder money through property, detaching the price from local wages, such as NY, LN and TK. I wouldn't count Seattle as a "big" city. The OP was talking about NY and SF, both of these are very big.
jsnk 11y ago
> "hellish place like NY" As opposed to what kind of place in Canada? NY was pretty awesome the last time I visited.
- branchless 11y ago
  It's subjective. I think it's hellish to live in. To visit, great.
  - CountSessine 11y ago
    What isn't subjective is the higher pay.
    - branchless 11y ago
      Which I didn't dispute. I disputed the idea that it's 500% from some guy who has 4 years experience.

potatolicious 11y ago

I'm in iOS dev. > "I could go to some hellish place like NY and live in a cardboard box and up my wage 50% (and work longer hours, with less holidays so less time with my kids)." I hear this a lot from Canadian colleagues who stay in Canada, and I dunno, it always irks me a little bit. Increasing your wage doesn't necessarily entail longer hours or fewer holidays. It seems like it's a popular perception in Canada to imagine all US jobs as some kind of hellish sweatshop where you're chained to your desk all day in exchange for more money - but in reality the spread of job quality is the same here as it is in some place like Toronto or Vancouver. You will find the same shitty sweatshop jobs and you will find great jobs - the pay increase seems entirely orthogonal to that. The market rate is simply higher - much higher, across the board.

branchless 11y ago
But not 500%, I'm quite sure. I think large urban centers generally have longer working hours. Such as NY and London. Typically the living quarters are smaller, the commute is longer and the culture is more "you shall be here until at least 6pm because you live to work". Not everywhere, but on average.
- potatolicious 11y ago
  I'm in NY, my office is empty at 9am, mostly full at 10am, starts emptying at 5pm, and is mostly deserted by 6pm. People work from home all the time, and leaving early is entirely accepted and even encouraged. This feels like it lines up with, well, everywhere else. I've had 4 jobs in this city and this has been the case with every single one, and they've ranged from tech megacorps to startups. This isn't some pressure-cooker investment banking job... I feel like your impression of NY tech (I can't speak to London) is drawn from stereotypes more than reality. I've worked also in Toronto and the work expectations do not feel much different - if anything it feels a bit more lax here in NYC than TO. > "But not 500%, I'm quite sure." I dunno, what do you think an iOS developer with ~4 years of experience fetches in Toronto or Vancouver? Let's say total comp (i.e., salary, any guaranteed bonuses, public stock).
  - branchless 11y ago
    I'm afraid this is anecdata. I'd expect a dev with ~4 years most places to not get that much. The how much doesn't matter, it's the idea that you get 500% that is clearly nuts. I mean - why would firms not be queuing up to cut their wages by 80% in the same timezone? Makes zero sense and doesn't accord with any figures. Also it's not a sane comparison at the start of your career. You have ~2 years then move and have ~4 years and your salary went up? Is that location related or related to the fact that you are now actually useful instead of learning the ropes? Avg developer salary in the US is ~80k. So to meet your 500% dev in Canada would be earning less than part-time hot-dog sellers. I work with people in NY every day. They work longer hours. I think if you asked most tech in big cities if their day is longer they'd agree.

serge2k 11y ago

My take home in Seattle is ~2.3 times what I made in BC. That's not including stock and bonuses either. Granted my rent has gone up by a factor of 3.5, but after paying rent I've still got double the money leftover. Other things are cheaper too. Now of course there is a couple years experience vs when I was in BC, but I would still probably be close to double.

branchless 11y ago
Ok it's working for you then. I think with housing costs factored in plus the net pay as the pay increase is taxed at a higher rate, plus quality of life issues make it less appealing. In the main I'm talking about "world cities" where the big finance firms launder money through property, detaching the price from local wages, such as NY, LN and TK. I wouldn't count Seattle as a "big" city. The OP was talking about NY and SF, both of these are very big.

jsnk 11y ago

> "hellish place like NY" As opposed to what kind of place in Canada? NY was pretty awesome the last time I visited.

branchless 11y ago
It's subjective. I think it's hellish to live in. To visit, great.
- CountSessine 11y ago
  What isn't subjective is the higher pay.
  - branchless 11y ago
    Which I didn't dispute. I disputed the idea that it's 500% from some guy who has 4 years experience.