4 ms·

We can't compete, a research lab and accelerator won't change the fact that our dollar is 3/4s the American dollar. I could move to the states, take the same sa

by jbob2000 11y ago

We can't compete, a research lab and accelerator won't change the fact that our dollar is 3/4s the American dollar. I could move to the states, take the same salary, and get an instant 30% raise. That, coupled with the fact that our goods are 10-20% more expensive than the states and our housing prices are skyrocketing, you're just shooting yourself in the foot by staying here.

criley2 11y ago
I'm curious how accurate a source like: http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_countries_result.jsp?country1=Canada&country2=United+States http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_countries_resul... Because, if rent and utilities are 40% average higher here and you make 30% more by moving, it may not be as big of a raise as you think.
- mikeash 11y ago
  It may be accurate, but the number is meaningless for this purpose. Cost of living varies within the US by far more than that, and I'm sure the same is true of Canada. You'd have to look at the actual cost of living in the location a person is moving from and to.
  - DMac87 11y ago
    http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Canada&city1=Toronto&country2=United+States&city2=San+Jose%2C+CA http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?coun...
  - endtime 11y ago
    The cost of living in SV/SF is extremely high.
- jbob2000 11y ago
  Canada has 2 tech hubs; the Greater Toronto Area, and Vancouver. Maybe you can count Montreal? In any case, the cost of living is very high in these areas, especially Vancouver. This is primarily brought on by a Canadian law which allows foreigners to purchase property in Canada, so wealthy Chinese are buying up property and using it to store wealth. In both Toronto and Vancouver, the public transit is abysmal and, in my opinion, 20 years behind what the population requires. So you NEED a car, and for Toronto at least, the insurance will kill you due to Ontario's "no fault" law. Our power infrastructure is crumbling as well. There was one point this summer where our power rates were temporarily jacked up by something like 300% due to an issue at a nuclear power station. A bad case of NIMBYism has delayed a gas power plant in the GTA, and the public company which manages power generation (Hydro One) recently sold a 60% stake to private investors. There is wide spread fear that the costs of power are going to skyrocket in the near future. The US has tech hubs all over the country. Houston, Seattle, New York, San Francisco, and those are just the big ones. If living in the "core" of these cities is too expensive, it is quite feasible to live on the outskirts and use the public transit to commute into the city. San Fran is a bit of an exception to this, as I understand it, though. I guess my point is, is that I have many many options in the States, whereas my hands are tied in Canada.
  - serge2k 11y ago
    > In both Toronto and Vancouver, the public transit is abysmal and, in my opinion, 20 years behind what the population requires. So you NEED a car Have you actually lived in Vancouver?
    - CountSessine 11y ago
      Have you actually lived in Vancouver? I do. I agree with him - the transit system here is abysmal for the job it should be doing. We had a referendum this year to expand translink, but it failed. Transit is moderately OK if you live in Vancouver-proper. But no one moves to Vancouver anymore because no one wants to raise a family in a 700 sqft apartment. Burquitlam/Richmond/Delta/Surrey? Forget about it; translink is awful there.
  - vkou 11y ago
    Vancouverite - if you think Vancouver's public transit is abysmal, you've probably never been to too many places in North America! It's... Pretty damn good. Much better than Seattle/SF/SJ/Just about other city that's not NYC. It is, however, a regional pastime to complain about it.
  - CountSessine 11y ago
    This is primarily brought on by a Canadian law which allows foreigners to purchase property in Canada, so wealthy Chinese are buying up property and using it to store wealth. It's also worth mentioning that Vancouver is especially vulnerable to this problem because for 30 years now we've had 'sustainable development' policies in the city and the province that were mostly there to make it difficult for people to live south-east of the Fraser. Vancouver effectively has a 'green-belt'. Other cities would have built more highways and bridges to make it easier for people to live where they want; Vancouver tries to fix the game and incentivize living north of the fraser. But we've reached a breaking point and none of the very mild incentives on offer makes up for crushing mortgage payments and trying to raise your kids in a broom closet. The solution here is simple - build more highways and bridges into Vancouver and let people live where they want.
- nahname 11y ago
  Cost of living is much less in the US than Canada.
rdtsc 11y ago
But are goods and services in Canada correspondingly cheaper. In other words converted to US dollars, devs make less there, but is food, housing and healthcare also costing less?
- moonchrome 11y ago
  >But are goods and services in Canada correspondingly cheaper. Only if they are made domestically without imported inputs. Currency depreciation lowers your standard of living and increases cost, it doesn't even make domestic goods more accessible - it only makes them cheaper compared to the imported alternatives - the only exception being if you earn money in foreign currency - in which case you are being stimulated as exporter. I doubt any of those is cheaper considering all the tax differences - for a young/healthy developer - health insurance will probably be a part of the package as well - the only exception would probably be housing which can vary.
- stanmancan 11y ago
  No. A ton of Canadians close to the border regularly cross the border to buy goods, including groceries, gas, and electronics. All of which are typically substantially cheaper even if it's only a 30 minute drive away. The Canadian dollar is doing terribly right now, so it's not as beneficial, but even but even though our dollar is only at $0.72 you can STILL save a bit of money after the exchange rate. Services tend to be significantly cheaper. (Cell phone plans, taxi's, ect.)
  - klipt 11y ago
    Isn't that mostly because the US has lower sales tax? Technically you should probably be paying import taxes on stuff you buy in the US and take back to Canada. Similarly Californians can cross the state border to Oregon (which has no sales tax) and buy cheaper stuff there, but technically they have to pay California a use tax on those items equivalent to Californian sales tax.
    - slavik81 11y ago
      No. This is why Canadians cross the boarder to shop in the US: US: $30 - http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001EZYMF4 http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001EZYMF4 Canada: $70 - http://www.amazon.ca/dp/B001EZYMF4 http://www.amazon.ca/dp/B001EZYMF4

criley2 11y ago

I'm curious how accurate a source like: http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_countries_result.jsp?country1=Canada&country2=United+States http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_countries_resul... Because, if rent and utilities are 40% average higher here and you make 30% more by moving, it may not be as big of a raise as you think.

mikeash 11y ago
It may be accurate, but the number is meaningless for this purpose. Cost of living varies within the US by far more than that, and I'm sure the same is true of Canada. You'd have to look at the actual cost of living in the location a person is moving from and to.
- DMac87 11y ago
  http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Canada&city1=Toronto&country2=United+States&city2=San+Jose%2C+CA http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?coun...
- endtime 11y ago
  The cost of living in SV/SF is extremely high.
jbob2000 11y ago
Canada has 2 tech hubs; the Greater Toronto Area, and Vancouver. Maybe you can count Montreal? In any case, the cost of living is very high in these areas, especially Vancouver. This is primarily brought on by a Canadian law which allows foreigners to purchase property in Canada, so wealthy Chinese are buying up property and using it to store wealth. In both Toronto and Vancouver, the public transit is abysmal and, in my opinion, 20 years behind what the population requires. So you NEED a car, and for Toronto at least, the insurance will kill you due to Ontario's "no fault" law. Our power infrastructure is crumbling as well. There was one point this summer where our power rates were temporarily jacked up by something like 300% due to an issue at a nuclear power station. A bad case of NIMBYism has delayed a gas power plant in the GTA, and the public company which manages power generation (Hydro One) recently sold a 60% stake to private investors. There is wide spread fear that the costs of power are going to skyrocket in the near future. The US has tech hubs all over the country. Houston, Seattle, New York, San Francisco, and those are just the big ones. If living in the "core" of these cities is too expensive, it is quite feasible to live on the outskirts and use the public transit to commute into the city. San Fran is a bit of an exception to this, as I understand it, though. I guess my point is, is that I have many many options in the States, whereas my hands are tied in Canada.
- serge2k 11y ago
  > In both Toronto and Vancouver, the public transit is abysmal and, in my opinion, 20 years behind what the population requires. So you NEED a car Have you actually lived in Vancouver?
  - CountSessine 11y ago
    Have you actually lived in Vancouver? I do. I agree with him - the transit system here is abysmal for the job it should be doing. We had a referendum this year to expand translink, but it failed. Transit is moderately OK if you live in Vancouver-proper. But no one moves to Vancouver anymore because no one wants to raise a family in a 700 sqft apartment. Burquitlam/Richmond/Delta/Surrey? Forget about it; translink is awful there.
- vkou 11y ago
  Vancouverite - if you think Vancouver's public transit is abysmal, you've probably never been to too many places in North America! It's... Pretty damn good. Much better than Seattle/SF/SJ/Just about other city that's not NYC. It is, however, a regional pastime to complain about it.
- CountSessine 11y ago
  This is primarily brought on by a Canadian law which allows foreigners to purchase property in Canada, so wealthy Chinese are buying up property and using it to store wealth. It's also worth mentioning that Vancouver is especially vulnerable to this problem because for 30 years now we've had 'sustainable development' policies in the city and the province that were mostly there to make it difficult for people to live south-east of the Fraser. Vancouver effectively has a 'green-belt'. Other cities would have built more highways and bridges to make it easier for people to live where they want; Vancouver tries to fix the game and incentivize living north of the fraser. But we've reached a breaking point and none of the very mild incentives on offer makes up for crushing mortgage payments and trying to raise your kids in a broom closet. The solution here is simple - build more highways and bridges into Vancouver and let people live where they want.
nahname 11y ago
Cost of living is much less in the US than Canada.

rdtsc 11y ago

But are goods and services in Canada correspondingly cheaper. In other words converted to US dollars, devs make less there, but is food, housing and healthcare also costing less?

moonchrome 11y ago
>But are goods and services in Canada correspondingly cheaper. Only if they are made domestically without imported inputs. Currency depreciation lowers your standard of living and increases cost, it doesn't even make domestic goods more accessible - it only makes them cheaper compared to the imported alternatives - the only exception being if you earn money in foreign currency - in which case you are being stimulated as exporter. I doubt any of those is cheaper considering all the tax differences - for a young/healthy developer - health insurance will probably be a part of the package as well - the only exception would probably be housing which can vary.
stanmancan 11y ago
No. A ton of Canadians close to the border regularly cross the border to buy goods, including groceries, gas, and electronics. All of which are typically substantially cheaper even if it's only a 30 minute drive away. The Canadian dollar is doing terribly right now, so it's not as beneficial, but even but even though our dollar is only at $0.72 you can STILL save a bit of money after the exchange rate. Services tend to be significantly cheaper. (Cell phone plans, taxi's, ect.)
- klipt 11y ago
  Isn't that mostly because the US has lower sales tax? Technically you should probably be paying import taxes on stuff you buy in the US and take back to Canada. Similarly Californians can cross the state border to Oregon (which has no sales tax) and buy cheaper stuff there, but technically they have to pay California a use tax on those items equivalent to Californian sales tax.
  - slavik81 11y ago
    No. This is why Canadians cross the boarder to shop in the US: US: $30 - http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001EZYMF4 http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001EZYMF4 Canada: $70 - http://www.amazon.ca/dp/B001EZYMF4 http://www.amazon.ca/dp/B001EZYMF4