4 ms·

> My window manager should dictate how windows looks. This works for all toolkits, from GTK2 over FLTK over Qt all the way to Mono's GDI. All, except GTK3. So

by nona 11y ago

> My window manager should dictate how windows looks. This works for all toolkits, from GTK2 over FLTK over Qt all the way to Mono's GDI. All, except GTK3. So you're arguing that because the window decorations are consistent, apps are consistent? Hate to break it to you, but running a GTK2 app under KDE/KWin will still look inconsistent. The only way you get to be consistent, is by having your app developers use the same toolkit. I don't see why the windows' frame should be regarded as "special" when all the button/tabs/filechooser/… widgets are different depending on the toolkit.

jstimpfle 11y ago
> The only way you get to be consistent, is by having your app developers use the same toolkit. Will never happen. Instead, if you want consistency, avoid redundancy in the first place (where it's practical)
- nona 11y ago
  I agree, but well, you can choose to run only or mostly GTK or QT apps, and stop caring the occasional out of place app (Blender? Steam?) doesn't look consistent. And to be honest, I don't see why I would care that apps like Blender or Steam have a window frame that looks exactly like the window frames of my (non-CSD) desktop environment/window manager, when the apps themselves are completely out of place. But that's me, I suppose.
  - jstimpfle 11y ago
    > I don't see why I would care that apps like Blender or Steam have a window frame that looks exactly like the window frames Unless you use blender or steam, or evince (!) with anything other than gnome3 and default theme, that is, and unless any of the many reasons against CSDs resounds for you (as somebody below posted) http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2010/05/open-letter-the-issues-with-client-side-window-decorations/ http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2010/05/open-letter-th... Sounds very unrealistic, doesn't it?
lomnakkus 11y ago
> Hate to break it to you, but running a GTK2 app under KDE/KWin will still look inconsistent. Certainly, but at least I can be sure that the inter-application[1] inconsistency in terms of overall window behavior/L&F is minimized (as far as practical) if the decorations are server-side. ... and that's a real win, at least from my perspective. Others may place a higher value on the intra-application consistency of client-side decorations. Obviously, if, say, you're using KWin, but only GTK/Gnome apps you're probably going to prefer this option. Thankfully, it seems that KWin[2] is going to allow both and is going to try to standardize a wayland protocol, so that users can choose what they want. Hopefully most Wayland clients will eventually respect this protocol -- we'll see. EDIT: I should also just give a shout out to Mr. Gräßlin. He's been an incredible boon to KDE. (No affiliation, don't know him personally -- just a fan. Hopefully he'll read this!) [1] For applications using different toolkits, obviously. Otherwise it doesn't really matter much except for misbehaving-application cases. [2] http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2015/12/server-side-decorations-coming-to-kwinwayland/ http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2015/12/server-side-de...
digi_owl 11y ago
IMO, to hell with consistency. Windows is perhaps the most inconsistent ecosystem out there, but at the same time the most used one.

by nona 11y ago

jstimpfle 11y ago

> The only way you get to be consistent, is by having your app developers use the same toolkit. Will never happen. Instead, if you want consistency, avoid redundancy in the first place (where it's practical)

nona 11y ago
I agree, but well, you can choose to run only or mostly GTK or QT apps, and stop caring the occasional out of place app (Blender? Steam?) doesn't look consistent. And to be honest, I don't see why I would care that apps like Blender or Steam have a window frame that looks exactly like the window frames of my (non-CSD) desktop environment/window manager, when the apps themselves are completely out of place. But that's me, I suppose.
- jstimpfle 11y ago
  > I don't see why I would care that apps like Blender or Steam have a window frame that looks exactly like the window frames Unless you use blender or steam, or evince (!) with anything other than gnome3 and default theme, that is, and unless any of the many reasons against CSDs resounds for you (as somebody below posted) http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2010/05/open-letter-the-issues-with-client-side-window-decorations/ http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2010/05/open-letter-th... Sounds very unrealistic, doesn't it?

lomnakkus 11y ago

> Hate to break it to you, but running a GTK2 app under KDE/KWin will still look inconsistent. Certainly, but at least I can be sure that the inter-application[1] inconsistency in terms of overall window behavior/L&F is minimized (as far as practical) if the decorations are server-side. ... and that's a real win, at least from my perspective. Others may place a higher value on the intra-application consistency of client-side decorations. Obviously, if, say, you're using KWin, but only GTK/Gnome apps you're probably going to prefer this option. Thankfully, it seems that KWin[2] is going to allow both and is going to try to standardize a wayland protocol, so that users can choose what they want. Hopefully most Wayland clients will eventually respect this protocol -- we'll see. EDIT: I should also just give a shout out to Mr. Gräßlin. He's been an incredible boon to KDE. (No affiliation, don't know him personally -- just a fan. Hopefully he'll read this!) [1] For applications using different toolkits, obviously. Otherwise it doesn't really matter much except for misbehaving-application cases. [2] http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2015/12/server-side-decorations-coming-to-kwinwayland/ http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2015/12/server-side-de...

digi_owl 11y ago

IMO, to hell with consistency. Windows is perhaps the most inconsistent ecosystem out there, but at the same time the most used one.