6 ms·

> Is it sexism to make assumptions that are probabilistically correct? Yes it's sexist, because assuming something about somebody based purely on their gender

by blowski 11y ago

> Is it sexism to make assumptions that are probabilistically correct? Yes it's sexist, because assuming something about somebody based purely on their gender is precisely what sexism is. However, sometimes, in the face of limited data and limited resources to gather more data, being sexist might be the best possible course of action. The problem with the stereotypes of gender is that you are dealing with huge numbers of people. Even if a well-conducted survey reveals that 99.9% of women prefer frozen yoghurt to pizza, then there's still around 3.5 million women in the world that prefer pizza to frozen yoghurt. So the best possible way to decide whether to buy pizza or frozen yoghurt for a woman is to ask her. However, if you had to make a snap decision then, yes, you should go with the statistically more likely option and if you get it wrong then she should understand why you did it.

humanrebar 11y ago
> ...assuming something about somebody based purely on their gender is precisely what sexism is. I'm going to challenge that definition. There are absolutely biological difference between men and women. When I offer to help a young woman carry her suitcase up stairs, am I being sexist because I assume she would appreciate the help? The definition of sexism needs to have room for some reality or the definition is useless or even harmful.
- kaitai 11y ago
  Well, think about whether you'd help a young man or leave him in the lurch, and think about whether you'd help if the woman in question is 6'1" and 190 pounds of muscle, handling the suitcase quite easily. Agreed that the definition needs to have some room for reality.
  - sokoloff 11y ago
    It may be a little old-school (which itself might be code for something else nefarious), but I will almost always stop for a woman [or the elderly] with a broken down car or flat tire on the side of the road (and have often doubled back from an exit a few miles down the road, then past the exit behind me, then returned if I couldn't safely stop as I initially passed). I will virtually never stop for a male in the same situation. (I have done so only when it's been dangerously cold out and in a fairly rural area.) It comes up a couple times per year; more than half end in "I'm OK, AAA is on the way", the next most common is me changing a tire for them, and the rarest of all (nowadays) is them borrowing my phone to call for help. If that's sexism, it's a type of sexism that I have no intention of stopping nor apologizing for.
    - Retra 11y ago
      That is pretty clearly sexism. You don't have to apologize for it; people will just think you're an asshole.
      - sokoloff 11y ago
        Given the rampant assholism in the world, I have to be unconcerned with those people who believe I'm an asshole for doing this.
        zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 11y ago
        Just to give you a hint: How would you feel if you didn't know how to help yourself with something, and someone refused to help you because(!) you happen to be male? You might not have realised it, but that's in essence what you said, and that's at least one reason why people have been telling you that that behaviour is sexist. It's not about you helping women, it's about you deciding who to help based on their gender.
        sokoloff 11y ago
        I'm not confused. I just don't agree that it makes me an asshole. I know it's differential behavior based on gender. That's why I thought it was interesting and on-topic to share. For me, it's a safety issue. I'm pretty certain that I'm going to be able to handle 99.99% of encounters with roadside females (or elderly). I've gotten into an altercation with a roadside male I stopped to help in high school (who was likely high when he ran his car off the road). I don't view it as particularly different from someone choosing to donate money or time to support the NAACP or NOW. Maybe donating to those organizations is racist and sexist, respectively? (Pedantically, it is, but I don't view those actions as negative or "asshole" either.)
        zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 11y ago
        > For me, it's a safety issue. I'm pretty certain that I'm going to be able to handle 99.99% of encounters with roadside females (or elderly). I've gotten into an altercation with a roadside male I stopped to help in high school (who was likely high when he ran his car off the road). Well, the question is: Do you decide based on physical strength/behaviour of the individual or based on gender? Sexism is when you ignore the individual's characteristics and instead decide how to interact with them based on some supposed characteristic of the gender that they belong to. If you simply decide based on how strong or high the individual is (or appears to be), independently of their gender, and that then happens to correlate with their gender, that's not sexism--if you avoid helping a male despite them appearing completely non-threatening/-intimidating/whatever (and that's how I understood what you wrote--after all, there is nothing "old school" about avoiding situations that seem risky, is there?), then that is sexism.

by blowski 11y ago

humanrebar 11y ago

> ...assuming something about somebody based purely on their gender is precisely what sexism is. I'm going to challenge that definition. There are absolutely biological difference between men and women. When I offer to help a young woman carry her suitcase up stairs, am I being sexist because I assume she would appreciate the help? The definition of sexism needs to have room for some reality or the definition is useless or even harmful.

kaitai 11y ago
Well, think about whether you'd help a young man or leave him in the lurch, and think about whether you'd help if the woman in question is 6'1" and 190 pounds of muscle, handling the suitcase quite easily. Agreed that the definition needs to have some room for reality.
- sokoloff 11y ago
  It may be a little old-school (which itself might be code for something else nefarious), but I will almost always stop for a woman [or the elderly] with a broken down car or flat tire on the side of the road (and have often doubled back from an exit a few miles down the road, then past the exit behind me, then returned if I couldn't safely stop as I initially passed). I will virtually never stop for a male in the same situation. (I have done so only when it's been dangerously cold out and in a fairly rural area.) It comes up a couple times per year; more than half end in "I'm OK, AAA is on the way", the next most common is me changing a tire for them, and the rarest of all (nowadays) is them borrowing my phone to call for help. If that's sexism, it's a type of sexism that I have no intention of stopping nor apologizing for.
  - Retra 11y ago
    That is pretty clearly sexism. You don't have to apologize for it; people will just think you're an asshole.
    - sokoloff 11y ago
      Given the rampant assholism in the world, I have to be unconcerned with those people who believe I'm an asshole for doing this.
      - zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 11y ago
        Just to give you a hint: How would you feel if you didn't know how to help yourself with something, and someone refused to help you because(!) you happen to be male? You might not have realised it, but that's in essence what you said, and that's at least one reason why people have been telling you that that behaviour is sexist. It's not about you helping women, it's about you deciding who to help based on their gender.
        sokoloff 11y ago
        I'm not confused. I just don't agree that it makes me an asshole. I know it's differential behavior based on gender. That's why I thought it was interesting and on-topic to share. For me, it's a safety issue. I'm pretty certain that I'm going to be able to handle 99.99% of encounters with roadside females (or elderly). I've gotten into an altercation with a roadside male I stopped to help in high school (who was likely high when he ran his car off the road). I don't view it as particularly different from someone choosing to donate money or time to support the NAACP or NOW. Maybe donating to those organizations is racist and sexist, respectively? (Pedantically, it is, but I don't view those actions as negative or "asshole" either.)
        zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 11y ago
        > For me, it's a safety issue. I'm pretty certain that I'm going to be able to handle 99.99% of encounters with roadside females (or elderly). I've gotten into an altercation with a roadside male I stopped to help in high school (who was likely high when he ran his car off the road). Well, the question is: Do you decide based on physical strength/behaviour of the individual or based on gender? Sexism is when you ignore the individual's characteristics and instead decide how to interact with them based on some supposed characteristic of the gender that they belong to. If you simply decide based on how strong or high the individual is (or appears to be), independently of their gender, and that then happens to correlate with their gender, that's not sexism--if you avoid helping a male despite them appearing completely non-threatening/-intimidating/whatever (and that's how I understood what you wrote--after all, there is nothing "old school" about avoiding situations that seem risky, is there?), then that is sexism.