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One big thing about GTK is how inefficient with space it is. I like that kind of design in Gnome and stuff where the interaction is minimal and the UI is just a

One big thing about GTK is how inefficient with space it is. I like that kind of design in Gnome and stuff where the interaction is minimal and the UI is just about presenting content - but it completely sucks for tool development. Just look at stuff like Gimp and Inkscape - those things are atrociously bad from GUI perspective - huge ugly icons, huge panels with pointlessly large input fields/sliders and other controls - the ammount of space you need to scan and is effectively wasted is staggering. It's like they want to make GTK+ a toolkit for pretty "two button apps" and "image viewer software with all the controls on the toolbar". Don't get me wrong - I like those designs - but those are of very very limited use - doing anything complex in GTK+ is just a no-go as shown in numerous IDEs/tools that use it. It's just built with the wrong set of defaults IMO. And I have no doubt that with some work you could reshape it to be much more usable - but the thing is most developers don't have that kind of knowledge, time or affinities. If it integrated into native file dialogs and such I wouldn't care if it "looks non native" - intellij IDEA looks non-native as well - it still looks great. Can you imagine how IDEA would look like if it used GTK+ controls ...

ronjouch 11y ago
True. I hate this padding so much I get rid of most of it with this ~/.config/gtk-3.0/gtk.css : GtkToolbar {padding: 1px;} GtkButton {padding: 4px;} GtkComboBox GtkToggleButton {padding: 2px;} On this side, it feels like the GNOME folks are just trying to shoehorn a start of tablet-friendliness ("two button apps" with huge padding). I wish they had instead a "Tablet" on/off switch that would increase/decrease padding.
- ronjouch 11y ago
  Hint if you're looking for other css selectors to make additional customizations: to inspect any GTK3 app under GNOME ≥ 3.14, just set the gsetting mentioned at [1], and Ctrl+Shift+I to get a Chrome/Firefox devtools-like inspector :) [1] https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/GTK%2B/Inspector https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/GTK%2B/Inspector
- anon4 11y ago
  Oh god thank you so much
frik 11y ago
> Just look at stuff like Gimp and Inkscape - those things are atrociously bad from GUI perspective GTK exists because of Gimp. Gnome came later. Sadly, the GUI of Gimp is still behind of Photoshop. Gnome 2 and KDE 3 were fine, then everthing went downhill. Nowadays Ubuntu and Gnome2-fork (Mint) are okay. Maybe implement a transparent theme that looks familar to Vista/Win7 users? Most users aren't that happy with the Win8/10 theme, that can't be changed.
- moonchrome 11y ago
  I know what GTK stands for :) I'm just saying it fails at that use case. It's actually fine for Gnome, I don't mind Gnome 3 at all, took some getting used to but it's working fine for me and I like the way it looks with some themes and extensions (Arc theme is great IMO and dock extension + alt-tab no group is all I need). Where GTK+ fails is providing GUI components that can be compact and information dense, all of it's widgets and layouts are designed arround white space heavy low density content/GUI - that just doesn't work for complex apps - GIMP/Inkscape being prime examples of bad GUI it creates.

ronjouch 11y ago

True. I hate this padding so much I get rid of most of it with this ~/.config/gtk-3.0/gtk.css : GtkToolbar {padding: 1px;} GtkButton {padding: 4px;} GtkComboBox GtkToggleButton {padding: 2px;} On this side, it feels like the GNOME folks are just trying to shoehorn a start of tablet-friendliness ("two button apps" with huge padding). I wish they had instead a "Tablet" on/off switch that would increase/decrease padding.

ronjouch 11y ago
Hint if you're looking for other css selectors to make additional customizations: to inspect any GTK3 app under GNOME ≥ 3.14, just set the gsetting mentioned at [1], and Ctrl+Shift+I to get a Chrome/Firefox devtools-like inspector :) [1] https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/GTK%2B/Inspector https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/GTK%2B/Inspector
anon4 11y ago
Oh god thank you so much

frik 11y ago

> Just look at stuff like Gimp and Inkscape - those things are atrociously bad from GUI perspective GTK exists because of Gimp. Gnome came later. Sadly, the GUI of Gimp is still behind of Photoshop. Gnome 2 and KDE 3 were fine, then everthing went downhill. Nowadays Ubuntu and Gnome2-fork (Mint) are okay. Maybe implement a transparent theme that looks familar to Vista/Win7 users? Most users aren't that happy with the Win8/10 theme, that can't be changed.

moonchrome 11y ago
I know what GTK stands for :) I'm just saying it fails at that use case. It's actually fine for Gnome, I don't mind Gnome 3 at all, took some getting used to but it's working fine for me and I like the way it looks with some themes and extensions (Arc theme is great IMO and dock extension + alt-tab no group is all I need). Where GTK+ fails is providing GUI components that can be compact and information dense, all of it's widgets and layouts are designed arround white space heavy low density content/GUI - that just doesn't work for complex apps - GIMP/Inkscape being prime examples of bad GUI it creates.