5 ms·

Migrated my personal thinkpad to OpenBSD, other than firefox coughing up now and then - its been smooth so far. Installing was a breeze, the man pages are well

by dbalan 11y ago

Migrated my personal thinkpad to OpenBSD, other than firefox coughing up now and then - its been smooth so far. Installing was a breeze, the man pages are well written, never had to run to google much except while partioning. Also: Never knew sudo was a openBSD project.

INTPenis 11y ago
Didn't openbsd attempt to rewrite sudo recently? There was a point about simplifying its configuration syntax. Also, as a long time BSD fanboy, I've never considered OpenBSD to be a desktop OS. It's a great OS that I use on routers and servers, but never a desktop. I had a period where I used FreeBSD on my laptop but once I went Linux, I never looked back.
- Gracana 11y ago
  > Didn't openbsd attempt to rewrite sudo recently? You're thinking of doas, perhaps? http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/man.cgi/OpenBSD-current/man1/doas.1 http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/man.cgi/OpenBSD-current/man1/...
- moviuro 11y ago
  The utility is now doas(1) (http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/man.cgi/OpenBSD-current/man1/doas.1 http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/man.cgi/OpenBSD-current/man1/...) Also, I'm surprised: I'm actually thinking about leaving Linux to put FreeBSD (or OpenBSD?) on my laptop (Linux is just too unstable and base utilities change non-stop: ip(8), iw(8), ifconfig(8), iwconfig(8), dhcpcd(8), systemd...)
- gnuvince 11y ago
  > Didn't openbsd attempt to rewrite sudo recently? There was a point about simplifying its configuration syntax. As the other two commenters said, you must be thinking of doas. Doas isn't a rewrite of sudo, it's an entirely new program with a different goal: capture the most common use cases of sudo and do away with most of the complexity to support the more involved scenario. This is a pretty common pattern in OpenBSD actually: provide the simple tool by default, let power users install the more complex tools if they need it for their work.
- dwc 11y ago
  Have you tried OpenBSD for desktop? FreeBSD on the desktop is, well, a pain. Hence PCBSD. But OpenBSD is actually pretty good at being a desktop, as long as you can live without some things like Flash and other things that will never be there.
  - floatboth 11y ago
    PC-BSD is "the Ubuntu of BSD" – a preconfigured GUI, a GUI app "store" etc. If you can install OpenBSD, you don't need it. FreeBSD on the desktop is not a pain!
    - dwc 11y ago
      FreeBSD on the desktop used be take a fair amount of fiddling. If that's no longer true then that's awesome! :)
      - vive-la-liberte 11y ago
        A major cause of pain people are hit by when they try to use an operating system other than Windows is that they are uninformed about hardware compatibility. Frequently, when someone wants to try out a new OS, they'll try to install on their desktop/laptop/whatever and they will be frustrated to find a broken mess. The correct way to get started with a new OS is to first try it out in a virtual machine. If you find that you enjoy using it, buy compatible hardware and go metal.
- SixSigma 11y ago
  Strange, it's my desktop. I wonder how I manage.
mhurron 11y ago
> Never knew sudo was a openBSD project. It's not. It just happens to be currently maintained by someone who is also an OpenBSD developer.
- neerdowell 11y ago
  "currently maintained" seems to imply that this is a recent thing, so just to point out, millert has been maintaining sudo since before 1994.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
njorth 11y ago
Firefox won't crash if you raise the memory limit in /etc/login.conf. OpenBSD kills processes using more than 512MB by default.
- anjbe 11y ago
  Not quite what happens. OpenBSD doesn’t kill processes that use too much memory—it just causes any more memory allocation to fail. A well‐written program would detect that out‐of‐memory condition and try to handle it (maybe pause, or print a message to the user, or exit cleanly), but Firefox is not well‐written, and just crashes… On the other hand, on Linux allocations succeed even when there isn’t enough memory on the system, and the OOM killer will kill a process once it starts using too much memory. Unlike the OpenBSD way, there’s no way for a process to detect that it’s using too much memory and handle it gracefully—you have to trust that the OOM killer is intelligent enough to never kill the wrong program…
  - njorth 11y ago
    Thanks for clarifying. I suppose it's more accurate to say that while OpenBSD doesn't kill processes outright, it maintains an environment where poor quality software will more likely crash than do harm. The source of login(1) for anyone interested <http://cvsweb.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/src/usr.bin/login/> http://cvsweb.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/src/usr.bin/login/>.
  - btrask 11y ago
    Wow, I'll remember this the next time someone tells me memory allocations can't fail. Seems like a great design overall, but I'm not sure how I feel about the fixed 512MB limit. That's too high in almost all cases, and too low for a few exceptions (e.g. browsers). Not that I have any suggestions for how to do it better, while still being reliable/predictable.
    - anjbe 11y ago
      The limit is configurable, and is also set per login class. System daemons run with lower limits. If you create a user while installing, it’s added to the “staff” user class, which has higher limits than users added later—this works pretty well for the common use‐cases of “single user desktop” and “server meant to be accessed by multiple unprivileged users”. Of course, you can always configure these limits in login.conf if your situation doesn’t match up well.
ElijahLynn 11y ago
I saw and thought the same thing at the bottom there! I also didn't know "su" = "substitue user" therfore "sudo" is "substitue user do".

by dbalan 11y ago

INTPenis 11y ago

Didn't openbsd attempt to rewrite sudo recently? There was a point about simplifying its configuration syntax. Also, as a long time BSD fanboy, I've never considered OpenBSD to be a desktop OS. It's a great OS that I use on routers and servers, but never a desktop. I had a period where I used FreeBSD on my laptop but once I went Linux, I never looked back.

Gracana 11y ago
> Didn't openbsd attempt to rewrite sudo recently? You're thinking of doas, perhaps? http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/man.cgi/OpenBSD-current/man1/doas.1 http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/man.cgi/OpenBSD-current/man1/...
moviuro 11y ago
The utility is now doas(1) (http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/man.cgi/OpenBSD-current/man1/doas.1 http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/man.cgi/OpenBSD-current/man1/...) Also, I'm surprised: I'm actually thinking about leaving Linux to put FreeBSD (or OpenBSD?) on my laptop (Linux is just too unstable and base utilities change non-stop: ip(8), iw(8), ifconfig(8), iwconfig(8), dhcpcd(8), systemd...)
gnuvince 11y ago
> Didn't openbsd attempt to rewrite sudo recently? There was a point about simplifying its configuration syntax. As the other two commenters said, you must be thinking of doas. Doas isn't a rewrite of sudo, it's an entirely new program with a different goal: capture the most common use cases of sudo and do away with most of the complexity to support the more involved scenario. This is a pretty common pattern in OpenBSD actually: provide the simple tool by default, let power users install the more complex tools if they need it for their work.
dwc 11y ago
Have you tried OpenBSD for desktop? FreeBSD on the desktop is, well, a pain. Hence PCBSD. But OpenBSD is actually pretty good at being a desktop, as long as you can live without some things like Flash and other things that will never be there.
- floatboth 11y ago
  PC-BSD is "the Ubuntu of BSD" – a preconfigured GUI, a GUI app "store" etc. If you can install OpenBSD, you don't need it. FreeBSD on the desktop is not a pain!
  - dwc 11y ago
    FreeBSD on the desktop used be take a fair amount of fiddling. If that's no longer true then that's awesome! :)
    - vive-la-liberte 11y ago
      A major cause of pain people are hit by when they try to use an operating system other than Windows is that they are uninformed about hardware compatibility. Frequently, when someone wants to try out a new OS, they'll try to install on their desktop/laptop/whatever and they will be frustrated to find a broken mess. The correct way to get started with a new OS is to first try it out in a virtual machine. If you find that you enjoy using it, buy compatible hardware and go metal.
SixSigma 11y ago
Strange, it's my desktop. I wonder how I manage.

mhurron 11y ago

> Never knew sudo was a openBSD project. It's not. It just happens to be currently maintained by someone who is also an OpenBSD developer.

neerdowell 11y ago
"currently maintained" seems to imply that this is a recent thing, so just to point out, millert has been maintaining sudo since before 1994.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

njorth 11y ago

Firefox won't crash if you raise the memory limit in /etc/login.conf. OpenBSD kills processes using more than 512MB by default.

anjbe 11y ago
Not quite what happens. OpenBSD doesn’t kill processes that use too much memory—it just causes any more memory allocation to fail. A well‐written program would detect that out‐of‐memory condition and try to handle it (maybe pause, or print a message to the user, or exit cleanly), but Firefox is not well‐written, and just crashes… On the other hand, on Linux allocations succeed even when there isn’t enough memory on the system, and the OOM killer will kill a process once it starts using too much memory. Unlike the OpenBSD way, there’s no way for a process to detect that it’s using too much memory and handle it gracefully—you have to trust that the OOM killer is intelligent enough to never kill the wrong program…
- njorth 11y ago
  Thanks for clarifying. I suppose it's more accurate to say that while OpenBSD doesn't kill processes outright, it maintains an environment where poor quality software will more likely crash than do harm. The source of login(1) for anyone interested <http://cvsweb.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/src/usr.bin/login/> http://cvsweb.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/src/usr.bin/login/>.
- btrask 11y ago
  Wow, I'll remember this the next time someone tells me memory allocations can't fail. Seems like a great design overall, but I'm not sure how I feel about the fixed 512MB limit. That's too high in almost all cases, and too low for a few exceptions (e.g. browsers). Not that I have any suggestions for how to do it better, while still being reliable/predictable.
  - anjbe 11y ago
    The limit is configurable, and is also set per login class. System daemons run with lower limits. If you create a user while installing, it’s added to the “staff” user class, which has higher limits than users added later—this works pretty well for the common use‐cases of “single user desktop” and “server meant to be accessed by multiple unprivileged users”. Of course, you can always configure these limits in login.conf if your situation doesn’t match up well.

ElijahLynn 11y ago

I saw and thought the same thing at the bottom there! I also didn't know "su" = "substitue user" therfore "sudo" is "substitue user do".