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Most Russians are terrified of the police, because they know that they can ask for a `bribe` even if you haven't done anything wrong. The problem with corrupt

Most Russians are terrified of the police, because they know that they can ask for a `bribe` even if you haven't done anything wrong. The problem with corrupt isn't that the rules benefit one party or another, rather that they are unpredictable.

aianus 11y ago
In Canada everybody speeds all the time. In fact, it would be unsafe not to speed on the 401 as you'd be driving considerably slower than everyone else. So the enforcement randomness is the same, it's just the penalties are stiffer and longer-lasting.
- praxulus 11y ago
  People don't get speeding tickets for going with the flow of traffic. And no, it really isn't unsafe to go at the speed limit. Driving at 20mph on a highway can cause problems, but going 10-15mph slower than traffic in the rightmost lane is not going to cause any accidents.
  - tedks 11y ago
    Unless you're black, or maybe also a muslim, or a sikh wearing a turban, or a native american. Unless the cop on that stretch has a quota to fill. Unless you're unlucky. Power is just as capricious, wherever you are in the world. People that select to be in positions of power are rarely the kind of people who can be trusted to always execute that power honestly. I see where the comment parent is coming from.
    - ptaipale 11y ago
      Or unless you are driving a fancier car than others, or at wrong time of day, or parked next to the wrong guy. Unless you're unlucky. However: > People that select to be in positions of power are rarely the kind of people who can be trusted to always execute that power honestly. I think this is an exaggeration. People that select to be in positions of power are not always the kind of people who can be trusted to always execute that power honestly. The difference in degree of corruption in a country is roughly the same thing as the trustability of people in positions of power.
  - drunken-serval 11y ago
    Oh yes they do. In Milwaukee, WI at the end of the month, you'll get a ticket for either going with the flow of traffic or driving below the flow of traffic (the speed limit). The highway will be lined with cars being pulled over.
- simonh 11y ago
  Ah the 'whatoubout' defence. Don't bother addressing the issue of pervasive, ingrained corruption institutionalised into daily life in country X, 'whatabout' speeding in Canada? My wife is from a country with ingrained corruption and her sister's husband is a police officer. Her cousin works at a notary's office, an institution who's only purpose is systematic corruption, and her husband narrowly escaped prison in a finance scandal at a company he ran through means that shall we say were less than ethical. Until you experience life in a place like that, you just can't really imagine what it's actually like. There's a world of difference between a country ruled by laws in which there is some corruption, and a country that is ruled by corruption in which there are some laws.
- vinceguidry 11y ago
  I don't understand why you're getting downvoted. Speeding is endemic in the US as well, and the penalties are onerous for pretty much everyone but the well-off. Speed limits should be raised to fit the speed everyone actually drives at, obviously it's not that unsafe, but no area has done that. I think you bring up good points about the relative scariness of Western selective enforcement as compared to developing world systemic corruption. Seems like if you keep your head up, you can escape getting targeted by the corrupt status quo. But in the West, people seem to get caught up in political whirlwinds with frightening randomness. Some dude's carrying cash to complete a seemingly routine business transaction the same way everybody in his town's always done it, and gets targeted for asset forfeiture. The scale of Western corruption can't rise to the level of the whole society, and that on the whole seems to make it worse rather than better when it actually surfaces.
  - pc86 11y ago
    > Speeding is endemic in the US as well, and the penalties are onerous for pretty much everyone but the well-off. No, they're not. Perhaps in some states but not on average. I'm in Pennsylvania so can only use those numbers.[0] There is the base fine (which can be doubled if you're in a work zone or an area with posted signs to that effect) and surcharges. Fine (25-55mph/40-90km/hr zone): $45-95 Fine (65 mph/105km/hr zone): $44.50-102.50 EMS Surcharge: $10 JCP Surcharge: $10 Court costs: Varies, last ticket I got was in 2010 and I think it was $7.50 MCARE: $50 for speeding, additional surcharges for additional offenses (e.g. passing a stopped school bus) So let's say you're going 100 mph (161 km/hr) through a construction zone. Personally I'd like to see your car impounded if you do this, but you're looking at a $275 ticket plus minimal court costs. Certainly under $300. Every ticket I've ever gotten has given me the option of paying over 12 months with no interest. I don't mean any of this to minimize your comment regarding selective enforcement. I've passed police who were doing speed enforcement at 15+ over the limit and seen others pulled over; I've been pulled over when there were others readily available going faster than me. [0] http://www.justdrivepa.org/Resources/TIPP%20Fine%20Card%20JAN%202009%20v1.pdf http://www.justdrivepa.org/Resources/TIPP%20Fine%20Card%20JA...
    - 11y ago
- TeMPOraL 11y ago
  It's not the same kind of unpredictability, but sometimes when I look at the West, it seems that we're getting there. But why people complain, I wonder? Isn't endemic bribery a realization of the libertarian dream? People setting up to collect as much toll as they can from you while you voluntarily try to access a resource - that's literally the free market solution! /s

aianus 11y ago

In Canada everybody speeds all the time. In fact, it would be unsafe not to speed on the 401 as you'd be driving considerably slower than everyone else. So the enforcement randomness is the same, it's just the penalties are stiffer and longer-lasting.

praxulus 11y ago
People don't get speeding tickets for going with the flow of traffic. And no, it really isn't unsafe to go at the speed limit. Driving at 20mph on a highway can cause problems, but going 10-15mph slower than traffic in the rightmost lane is not going to cause any accidents.
- tedks 11y ago
  Unless you're black, or maybe also a muslim, or a sikh wearing a turban, or a native american. Unless the cop on that stretch has a quota to fill. Unless you're unlucky. Power is just as capricious, wherever you are in the world. People that select to be in positions of power are rarely the kind of people who can be trusted to always execute that power honestly. I see where the comment parent is coming from.
  - ptaipale 11y ago
    Or unless you are driving a fancier car than others, or at wrong time of day, or parked next to the wrong guy. Unless you're unlucky. However: > People that select to be in positions of power are rarely the kind of people who can be trusted to always execute that power honestly. I think this is an exaggeration. People that select to be in positions of power are not always the kind of people who can be trusted to always execute that power honestly. The difference in degree of corruption in a country is roughly the same thing as the trustability of people in positions of power.
- drunken-serval 11y ago
  Oh yes they do. In Milwaukee, WI at the end of the month, you'll get a ticket for either going with the flow of traffic or driving below the flow of traffic (the speed limit). The highway will be lined with cars being pulled over.
simonh 11y ago
Ah the 'whatoubout' defence. Don't bother addressing the issue of pervasive, ingrained corruption institutionalised into daily life in country X, 'whatabout' speeding in Canada? My wife is from a country with ingrained corruption and her sister's husband is a police officer. Her cousin works at a notary's office, an institution who's only purpose is systematic corruption, and her husband narrowly escaped prison in a finance scandal at a company he ran through means that shall we say were less than ethical. Until you experience life in a place like that, you just can't really imagine what it's actually like. There's a world of difference between a country ruled by laws in which there is some corruption, and a country that is ruled by corruption in which there are some laws.
vinceguidry 11y ago
I don't understand why you're getting downvoted. Speeding is endemic in the US as well, and the penalties are onerous for pretty much everyone but the well-off. Speed limits should be raised to fit the speed everyone actually drives at, obviously it's not that unsafe, but no area has done that. I think you bring up good points about the relative scariness of Western selective enforcement as compared to developing world systemic corruption. Seems like if you keep your head up, you can escape getting targeted by the corrupt status quo. But in the West, people seem to get caught up in political whirlwinds with frightening randomness. Some dude's carrying cash to complete a seemingly routine business transaction the same way everybody in his town's always done it, and gets targeted for asset forfeiture. The scale of Western corruption can't rise to the level of the whole society, and that on the whole seems to make it worse rather than better when it actually surfaces.
- pc86 11y ago
  > Speeding is endemic in the US as well, and the penalties are onerous for pretty much everyone but the well-off. No, they're not. Perhaps in some states but not on average. I'm in Pennsylvania so can only use those numbers.[0] There is the base fine (which can be doubled if you're in a work zone or an area with posted signs to that effect) and surcharges. Fine (25-55mph/40-90km/hr zone): $45-95 Fine (65 mph/105km/hr zone): $44.50-102.50 EMS Surcharge: $10 JCP Surcharge: $10 Court costs: Varies, last ticket I got was in 2010 and I think it was $7.50 MCARE: $50 for speeding, additional surcharges for additional offenses (e.g. passing a stopped school bus) So let's say you're going 100 mph (161 km/hr) through a construction zone. Personally I'd like to see your car impounded if you do this, but you're looking at a $275 ticket plus minimal court costs. Certainly under $300. Every ticket I've ever gotten has given me the option of paying over 12 months with no interest. I don't mean any of this to minimize your comment regarding selective enforcement. I've passed police who were doing speed enforcement at 15+ over the limit and seen others pulled over; I've been pulled over when there were others readily available going faster than me. [0] http://www.justdrivepa.org/Resources/TIPP%20Fine%20Card%20JAN%202009%20v1.pdf http://www.justdrivepa.org/Resources/TIPP%20Fine%20Card%20JA...
  - 11y ago
TeMPOraL 11y ago
It's not the same kind of unpredictability, but sometimes when I look at the West, it seems that we're getting there. But why people complain, I wonder? Isn't endemic bribery a realization of the libertarian dream? People setting up to collect as much toll as they can from you while you voluntarily try to access a resource - that's literally the free market solution! /s