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The only problem with the article is the speed limit is much more complicated than the number printed on the sign. The actual speed limit depends on the flow o

The only problem with the article is the speed limit is much more complicated than the number printed on the sign. The actual speed limit depends on the flow of traffic and weather conditions. Merging on to a high way where people are driving 80 then driving 65 is violating the law.

peeters 11y ago
In which jurisdictions is it illegal to obey the speed limit if traffic is going faster? I know some jurisdictions have charges for impeding traffic but that's always been for when you're going under the limit. I'm skeptical that to conform to the law you have to exceed the posted limit.
- bryanlarsen 11y ago
  Toronto, Ontario, Canada at least. One guy got a speeding ticket for doing 120 kph in the merge lane. He got mad and decided he was going to strictly follow the law and do 100 kph in the fast lane, which normally travels at 130 or higher. He caused a traffic jam, got an obstruction ticket, fought it and lost.
  - peeters 11y ago
    There's a big asterisk there, and that was that he got the ticket for being in the fast lane. That's different than forcing someone to speed (i.e. break the limit even in the slow/only lane).
- dalke 11y ago
  http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/beat-ticket-book/chapter7-6.html http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/beat-ticke... > There are several circumstances in which drivers may be ticketed for illegally blocking or impeding traffic by driving too slowly or failing to yield to a long line of vehicles behind them. ... Driving Too Slowly in Left Lane ... Impeding Traffic ... Failing to Use "Turnouts" Regarding the first of these, > Your state's law will say something like: > Any vehicle proceeding upon a highway at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction at such time shall be driven in the right-hand lane for traffic or as close as practicable to the right-hand edge or curb, except when overtaking and passing another vehicle pro ceeding in the same direction or when preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway. If a vehicle is being driven at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic mov ing in the same direction at such time, and is not being driven in the right-hand lane for traffic or as close as practicable to the right-hand edge or curb, it shall constitute evidence that the driver is operating the vehicle in violation of this section. Note how this uses "normal speed", not "speed limit". The NoLo site at http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/beat-ticket-book/chapter5-1.html http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/beat-ticke... describes how there are three types of speed-limit violations: "Absolute", "Presumed", and "Basic". In an "absolute" speed limit state, you can defend against a 'Driving Too Slowly in Left Lane' by showing you were were traveling at the posted speed limit. (Quoting NoLo - I have no legal training.) However, that is not true of all states.
  - peeters 11y ago
    Again, that is not saying you have to exceed the limit, it's just saying if you're slower than the flow of traffic, then you have to move over and let people pass.
    - dalke 11y ago
      My interpretation is that in a state has an "absolute" speed limit law then you have a successful defense against a ticket for going at the speed limit in the left-most lane when there is faster traffic. If you are in a state which does not have an absolute speed limit law, then you do not have that defense, and can be fined for going at the speed limit in that situation. Here is a breakdown of the state laws (undated, and no promises that it's correct or still true) - http://www.mit.edu/~jfc/right.html http://www.mit.edu/~jfc/right.html . The bottom has the following: > The Uniform Vehicle Code states: > Upon all roadways any vehicle proceeding at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing shall be driven in the right-hand lane then available for traffic ... > This law refers to the "normal" speed of traffic, not the "legal" speed of traffic. The 60 MPH driver in a 55 MPH zone where everybody else is going 65 MPH must move right. Contrast Alaska's rule, 13 AAC 002.50, allowing vehicles driving at the speed limit to use the left lane, and Colorado rev. stat. 42-4-1103, prohibiting blocking the "normal and reasonable" movement of traffic. > Enforcement is inconsistent. Toledo police used to ticket truck drivers for driving at the 60 MPH speed limit in the left lane. Police looking for criminal activity frequently use the "keep right" law as a pretext to stop a suspicious car. On the other hand, a New York judge announced that he would not convict drivers for blocking speeding traffic, People v. Ilieveski, 175 Misc. 2d 943; 670 N.Y.S.2d 1004 (Monroe County N.Y. 1998).
thaeli 11y ago
You're confusing two different moving violations here: exceeding posted speed limit and failure to keep right. (AKA impeding traffic; the exact term varies from state to state. Also, I'm assuming American traffic law here.) If the speed limit is 65, the flow of traffic is at 80, and you drive 65 in the left lane - you are failing to keep as far right as practicable, because you're moving slower than the flow of traffic in other than the rightmost lane. If you're going 80, you are still speeding, but you're not failing to keep right. Yes, it's unlikely you'll be pulled over, but you are committing a moving violation nonetheless. If you're going 65 and you're in the rightmost lane, there is no violation even though you're travelling slower than the flow of traffic. Posted speed limits are still do-not-exceed values; the requirement to keep as far right as practicable is a completely separate issue.

peeters 11y ago

In which jurisdictions is it illegal to obey the speed limit if traffic is going faster? I know some jurisdictions have charges for impeding traffic but that's always been for when you're going under the limit. I'm skeptical that to conform to the law you have to exceed the posted limit.

bryanlarsen 11y ago
Toronto, Ontario, Canada at least. One guy got a speeding ticket for doing 120 kph in the merge lane. He got mad and decided he was going to strictly follow the law and do 100 kph in the fast lane, which normally travels at 130 or higher. He caused a traffic jam, got an obstruction ticket, fought it and lost.
- peeters 11y ago
  There's a big asterisk there, and that was that he got the ticket for being in the fast lane. That's different than forcing someone to speed (i.e. break the limit even in the slow/only lane).
dalke 11y ago
http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/beat-ticket-book/chapter7-6.html http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/beat-ticke... > There are several circumstances in which drivers may be ticketed for illegally blocking or impeding traffic by driving too slowly or failing to yield to a long line of vehicles behind them. ... Driving Too Slowly in Left Lane ... Impeding Traffic ... Failing to Use "Turnouts" Regarding the first of these, > Your state's law will say something like: > Any vehicle proceeding upon a highway at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction at such time shall be driven in the right-hand lane for traffic or as close as practicable to the right-hand edge or curb, except when overtaking and passing another vehicle pro ceeding in the same direction or when preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway. If a vehicle is being driven at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic mov ing in the same direction at such time, and is not being driven in the right-hand lane for traffic or as close as practicable to the right-hand edge or curb, it shall constitute evidence that the driver is operating the vehicle in violation of this section. Note how this uses "normal speed", not "speed limit". The NoLo site at http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/beat-ticket-book/chapter5-1.html http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/beat-ticke... describes how there are three types of speed-limit violations: "Absolute", "Presumed", and "Basic". In an "absolute" speed limit state, you can defend against a 'Driving Too Slowly in Left Lane' by showing you were were traveling at the posted speed limit. (Quoting NoLo - I have no legal training.) However, that is not true of all states.
- peeters 11y ago
  Again, that is not saying you have to exceed the limit, it's just saying if you're slower than the flow of traffic, then you have to move over and let people pass.
  - dalke 11y ago
    My interpretation is that in a state has an "absolute" speed limit law then you have a successful defense against a ticket for going at the speed limit in the left-most lane when there is faster traffic. If you are in a state which does not have an absolute speed limit law, then you do not have that defense, and can be fined for going at the speed limit in that situation. Here is a breakdown of the state laws (undated, and no promises that it's correct or still true) - http://www.mit.edu/~jfc/right.html http://www.mit.edu/~jfc/right.html . The bottom has the following: > The Uniform Vehicle Code states: > Upon all roadways any vehicle proceeding at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing shall be driven in the right-hand lane then available for traffic ... > This law refers to the "normal" speed of traffic, not the "legal" speed of traffic. The 60 MPH driver in a 55 MPH zone where everybody else is going 65 MPH must move right. Contrast Alaska's rule, 13 AAC 002.50, allowing vehicles driving at the speed limit to use the left lane, and Colorado rev. stat. 42-4-1103, prohibiting blocking the "normal and reasonable" movement of traffic. > Enforcement is inconsistent. Toledo police used to ticket truck drivers for driving at the 60 MPH speed limit in the left lane. Police looking for criminal activity frequently use the "keep right" law as a pretext to stop a suspicious car. On the other hand, a New York judge announced that he would not convict drivers for blocking speeding traffic, People v. Ilieveski, 175 Misc. 2d 943; 670 N.Y.S.2d 1004 (Monroe County N.Y. 1998).

thaeli 11y ago

You're confusing two different moving violations here: exceeding posted speed limit and failure to keep right. (AKA impeding traffic; the exact term varies from state to state. Also, I'm assuming American traffic law here.) If the speed limit is 65, the flow of traffic is at 80, and you drive 65 in the left lane - you are failing to keep as far right as practicable, because you're moving slower than the flow of traffic in other than the rightmost lane. If you're going 80, you are still speeding, but you're not failing to keep right. Yes, it's unlikely you'll be pulled over, but you are committing a moving violation nonetheless. If you're going 65 and you're in the rightmost lane, there is no violation even though you're travelling slower than the flow of traffic. Posted speed limits are still do-not-exceed values; the requirement to keep as far right as practicable is a completely separate issue.