5 ms·

Xerox Parc has a patent on a type of filter viewer that acts like a looking glass to see the effect of the filter. Every year, someone reinvents it and presents

Xerox Parc has a patent on a type of filter viewer that acts like a looking glass to see the effect of the filter. Every year, someone reinvents it and presents it at some HCI conference, only to be told they can't use it. They are sitting on it, not building it, and also enforcing it. SIFT is a vision technique that is patented and works very well. Patents are getting in the way of commercial progress http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scale-invariant_feature_transform http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scale-invariant_feature_transfo... Amazon Onc-Click is an absurd patent. If we grew to scale, Tipjoy would probably have had to pay them money, like Apple does.

mattmaroon 17y ago
Does Amazon actually enforce that? My understanding (perhaps incorrect) was that they quit after the hubbub when they tried it on Barnes and Noble. Also, isn't Bezos notoriously opposed to software patents?
- ivankirigin 17y ago
  It was a risk for us to do one-click payments. Some might have chosen to avoid that risk, thus stifling innovation. The degree is certainly debatable.
- Create 17y ago
  Beso et al. are bullies. btw: http://webshop.ffii.org/ http://webshop.ffii.org/ "Reback often tells the story of how a team of IBM patent lawyers went to Sun Microsystems Inc. in the 1980s and claimed that the then start-up was infringing on seven of its patents. After Sun engineers explained why they were not infringing, the IBM lawyers responded that with 10,000 patents, they would be sure to find some infringement somewhere." The Washington Post "One could be tempted to consider ever stricter IP protection regimes to provide ever more stimuli for innovation. This conclusion is wrong, however. A prime example is patents on software, which might at first sight be seen as a logical expansion of the classic technology patent. But creating software differs markedly from creating machinery and the like." Deutsche Bank Research "If people had understood how patents would be granted when most of today's ideas were invented and had taken out patents, the industry would be at a complete standstill today." Bill Gates (1991) "The world's patent systems need reform so that innovation can be properly rewarded. (...) It is becoming ever more apparent that the patent system isn't working." The Economist (11 November 2004) "Building up a patent portfolio by engaging in defensive patenting cannot always protect against hold-up." Federal Trade Commission of the USA "More patents in more industries and with greater breadth are not always the best ways to maximize consumer welfare." Federal Trade Commission of the USA "The mild regime of IP protection in the past has led to a very innovative and competitive software industry with low entry barriers. A software patent, which serves to protect inventions of a non-technical nature, could kill the high innovation rate." PriceWaterhouseCoopers "SMEs are crucial providers of pathbreaking innovations, but would be most adversely affected by patentability. The majority of them is deterred by the costs of patenting themselves, but would have to navigate around software patent portfolios of large corporations." Deutsche Bank Research "Many large companies operating on a global scale, including European ones, seem to be in favour of a software patenting regime. But most small enterprises are strongly opposed." PriceWaterhouseCoopers Microsoft Corp. warned Asian governments on Thursday they could face patent lawsuits for using the Linux operating system instead of its Windows software. Reuters (18 November 2004) "A future start-up with no patents of its own will be forced to pay whatever price the giants choose to impose. That price might be high: Established companies have an interest in excluding future competitors." Bill Gates (1991) "Patent law provides to inventors an exclusive right to new technology in return for publication of the technology. This is not appropriate for industries such as software development in which innovations occur rapidly, can be made without a substantial capital investment, and tend to be creative combinations of previously-known techniques." Oracle Corporation Patent Policy
  - mattmaroon 17y ago
    Wow was that off topic. Guy A: "Doesn't Amazon get software patents mainly to protect themselves rather than enforce them?" Guy B: "Here's a long, extensive list of actions by other companies proving that software patents are evil!" Sometimes I think people need to drink less Kool-Aid.
    - Create 17y ago
      Read B again, and recognize that there is no such thing as a software patent "mainly to protect themselves". Consider the patent portfolio effect right from the first, wsj quote.
      - mattmaroon 17y ago
        That you can find examples of people abusing patents is not proof that all patents exist to be abused.
        gridspy 17y ago
        It is hard to tell either way until the engineers in a startup have created the "infringing" technology and it is well established in the marketplace.
- dhume 17y ago
  It's hard to tell if a company with a large patent portfolio is only planning to use them defensively. Does Amazon lend any support to patent reform efforts?
motters 17y ago
The SIFT patent probably is preventing progress in computer vision products, since I think it's exclusively licensed to one or two companies. I know of folks who have asked permission to use SIFT within a product and been told that they can't have it.
jojopotato 17y ago
The patent on SIFT is particularly frustrating because it's free for researchers to use so it ends up in every paper that concerns interest point recognition. So if you ever wanted to build an application implementing paper research, it makes it kind of tricky. A fairly decent alternative (although less resistant to rotation) is SURF which isn't under a patent AFAIK.

mattmaroon 17y ago

Does Amazon actually enforce that? My understanding (perhaps incorrect) was that they quit after the hubbub when they tried it on Barnes and Noble. Also, isn't Bezos notoriously opposed to software patents?

ivankirigin 17y ago
It was a risk for us to do one-click payments. Some might have chosen to avoid that risk, thus stifling innovation. The degree is certainly debatable.
Create 17y ago
Beso et al. are bullies. btw: http://webshop.ffii.org/ http://webshop.ffii.org/ "Reback often tells the story of how a team of IBM patent lawyers went to Sun Microsystems Inc. in the 1980s and claimed that the then start-up was infringing on seven of its patents. After Sun engineers explained why they were not infringing, the IBM lawyers responded that with 10,000 patents, they would be sure to find some infringement somewhere." The Washington Post "One could be tempted to consider ever stricter IP protection regimes to provide ever more stimuli for innovation. This conclusion is wrong, however. A prime example is patents on software, which might at first sight be seen as a logical expansion of the classic technology patent. But creating software differs markedly from creating machinery and the like." Deutsche Bank Research "If people had understood how patents would be granted when most of today's ideas were invented and had taken out patents, the industry would be at a complete standstill today." Bill Gates (1991) "The world's patent systems need reform so that innovation can be properly rewarded. (...) It is becoming ever more apparent that the patent system isn't working." The Economist (11 November 2004) "Building up a patent portfolio by engaging in defensive patenting cannot always protect against hold-up." Federal Trade Commission of the USA "More patents in more industries and with greater breadth are not always the best ways to maximize consumer welfare." Federal Trade Commission of the USA "The mild regime of IP protection in the past has led to a very innovative and competitive software industry with low entry barriers. A software patent, which serves to protect inventions of a non-technical nature, could kill the high innovation rate." PriceWaterhouseCoopers "SMEs are crucial providers of pathbreaking innovations, but would be most adversely affected by patentability. The majority of them is deterred by the costs of patenting themselves, but would have to navigate around software patent portfolios of large corporations." Deutsche Bank Research "Many large companies operating on a global scale, including European ones, seem to be in favour of a software patenting regime. But most small enterprises are strongly opposed." PriceWaterhouseCoopers Microsoft Corp. warned Asian governments on Thursday they could face patent lawsuits for using the Linux operating system instead of its Windows software. Reuters (18 November 2004) "A future start-up with no patents of its own will be forced to pay whatever price the giants choose to impose. That price might be high: Established companies have an interest in excluding future competitors." Bill Gates (1991) "Patent law provides to inventors an exclusive right to new technology in return for publication of the technology. This is not appropriate for industries such as software development in which innovations occur rapidly, can be made without a substantial capital investment, and tend to be creative combinations of previously-known techniques." Oracle Corporation Patent Policy
- mattmaroon 17y ago
  Wow was that off topic. Guy A: "Doesn't Amazon get software patents mainly to protect themselves rather than enforce them?" Guy B: "Here's a long, extensive list of actions by other companies proving that software patents are evil!" Sometimes I think people need to drink less Kool-Aid.
  - Create 17y ago
    Read B again, and recognize that there is no such thing as a software patent "mainly to protect themselves". Consider the patent portfolio effect right from the first, wsj quote.
    - mattmaroon 17y ago
      That you can find examples of people abusing patents is not proof that all patents exist to be abused.
      - gridspy 17y ago
        It is hard to tell either way until the engineers in a startup have created the "infringing" technology and it is well established in the marketplace.
dhume 17y ago
It's hard to tell if a company with a large patent portfolio is only planning to use them defensively. Does Amazon lend any support to patent reform efforts?

motters 17y ago

The SIFT patent probably is preventing progress in computer vision products, since I think it's exclusively licensed to one or two companies. I know of folks who have asked permission to use SIFT within a product and been told that they can't have it.

jojopotato 17y ago

The patent on SIFT is particularly frustrating because it's free for researchers to use so it ends up in every paper that concerns interest point recognition. So if you ever wanted to build an application implementing paper research, it makes it kind of tricky. A fairly decent alternative (although less resistant to rotation) is SURF which isn't under a patent AFAIK.