5 ms·

Seriously, what do you think would happen if, magically, all those Flash ads disappeared one day? Bloated, gif-based animated ads and/or HTML5 <canvas><audio><

Seriously, what do you think would happen if, magically, all those Flash ads disappeared one day? Bloated, gif-based animated ads and/or HTML5 <canvas><audio><video> animated ads would take their place. (With, in many instances, much worse performance). Flash isn't the issue; CPU-pegging animation, and ads, are the issue. The Medium != the Message.

GHFigs 17y ago
what do you think would happen if, magically, all those Flash ads disappeared one day? Users of FlashBlock, ClickToFlash, and platforms that don't support Flash (such as the iPhone) already know what would happen, and they like it.
- ryanwaggoner 17y ago
  No, they know what happens if the ads disappear for them, but if they disappeared for everyone, they would just be replaced with other sources of annoyance and bother. Yes, you could block some of those, but eventually, you start blocking things that are genuinely useful, like images or javascript. Right now, Flash one most sites means one of two things: ads or video. Kill Flash and now the situation won't be nearly as clear or easy to block.
  - GHFigs 17y ago
    Unless you've got a solution for the underlying problem that it is profitable to distract people, this is going to happen no matter what people do. Removing Flash from the list of ways which they are able to do that means that they have to work that much harder, rather than you having to work that much harder to conserve your attention by blocking it. Make the bastards chase you.
    - ryanwaggoner 17y ago
      That's just it, though...blocking flash is easy and 99% of the time, all I'm missing is ads and video. And one click displays the video if I really want to watch it. Whereas if flash goes away, I'll have to start blocking things that are more useful on more levels, like images, javascript, etc.
benologist 17y ago
To be fair Flash doesn't help the issue. I make games in Flash and performance is frequently an issue I and others battle against. The point at which Flash performance begins degrading is stupidly early.
axod 17y ago
The solution in that case is to stop browsing websites that use annoying intrusive ads.
- jokermatt999 17y ago
  It's not just poor sites that use annoying and intrusive ads. Many newspapers and otherwise high quality sites have intrusive ads. It isn't easy to simply drop all of those sites and remain informed.
ericd 17y ago
The Mac implementation of the Flash player is awful, it regularly pegs my CPU. I'm assuming that HTML 5 in a well coded browser will not do the same, no matter how annoying the ad.
- Groxx 17y ago
  If you're talking Youtube's HTML5 video player, I regularly stay below 20% CPU. That's 10% total power, as percentages go above 100 when using more than one core. Otherwise, it'd be Javascript + <canvas>, which so far is pretty darned fast, but not too friendly to ad-servers. Not Flash-fast, but speedy, and quickly getting faster. If JS+canvas gets more popular, you can bet that JS will get WAY more attention in this area.
  - cake 17y ago
    I'm actually quite disapointed by Youtube's HTML5. I had great expectations, I know it's just the beginning and I'm sure it'll be better, but I'm closer to 80% CPU than 20% with my Macbook on Safari 4.
    - Groxx 17y ago
      That could explain it. I'm on a MBP, with 10.6, so I may be getting the hardware decoding, while you're not.
    - tl 17y ago
      On Ubuntu 9.10(all same video): Youtube HTML5 - 15-20% CPU Youtube Flash - 20-25% CPU .flv in Totem - 2-3% CPU Clearly, there is optimisation work needed here.
- notauser 17y ago
  Any kind of JavaScript while(true) loop will lock up the page, so you aren't safe from incompetent coders just yet. Depending on the browser and the OS that can bog down the CPU as badly as Flash. (And there's no move towards parallel execution of in-page dom-touching JavaScript yet - web workers can't do it. Concurrency is such an issue that you can't even pass a function into a web worker in case it has bound variables - it's separate-script-and-message-passing only.)
est 17y ago
Seriously, if Flash disappeared, ads made by canvas or SVG inserted via obfuscated javascript is harder to block than plain Flash ads.

GHFigs 17y ago

what do you think would happen if, magically, all those Flash ads disappeared one day? Users of FlashBlock, ClickToFlash, and platforms that don't support Flash (such as the iPhone) already know what would happen, and they like it.

ryanwaggoner 17y ago
No, they know what happens if the ads disappear for them, but if they disappeared for everyone, they would just be replaced with other sources of annoyance and bother. Yes, you could block some of those, but eventually, you start blocking things that are genuinely useful, like images or javascript. Right now, Flash one most sites means one of two things: ads or video. Kill Flash and now the situation won't be nearly as clear or easy to block.
- GHFigs 17y ago
  Unless you've got a solution for the underlying problem that it is profitable to distract people, this is going to happen no matter what people do. Removing Flash from the list of ways which they are able to do that means that they have to work that much harder, rather than you having to work that much harder to conserve your attention by blocking it. Make the bastards chase you.
  - ryanwaggoner 17y ago
    That's just it, though...blocking flash is easy and 99% of the time, all I'm missing is ads and video. And one click displays the video if I really want to watch it. Whereas if flash goes away, I'll have to start blocking things that are more useful on more levels, like images, javascript, etc.

benologist 17y ago

To be fair Flash doesn't help the issue. I make games in Flash and performance is frequently an issue I and others battle against. The point at which Flash performance begins degrading is stupidly early.

axod 17y ago

The solution in that case is to stop browsing websites that use annoying intrusive ads.

jokermatt999 17y ago
It's not just poor sites that use annoying and intrusive ads. Many newspapers and otherwise high quality sites have intrusive ads. It isn't easy to simply drop all of those sites and remain informed.

ericd 17y ago

The Mac implementation of the Flash player is awful, it regularly pegs my CPU. I'm assuming that HTML 5 in a well coded browser will not do the same, no matter how annoying the ad.

Groxx 17y ago
If you're talking Youtube's HTML5 video player, I regularly stay below 20% CPU. That's 10% total power, as percentages go above 100 when using more than one core. Otherwise, it'd be Javascript + <canvas>, which so far is pretty darned fast, but not too friendly to ad-servers. Not Flash-fast, but speedy, and quickly getting faster. If JS+canvas gets more popular, you can bet that JS will get WAY more attention in this area.
- cake 17y ago
  I'm actually quite disapointed by Youtube's HTML5. I had great expectations, I know it's just the beginning and I'm sure it'll be better, but I'm closer to 80% CPU than 20% with my Macbook on Safari 4.
  - Groxx 17y ago
    That could explain it. I'm on a MBP, with 10.6, so I may be getting the hardware decoding, while you're not.
  - tl 17y ago
    On Ubuntu 9.10(all same video): Youtube HTML5 - 15-20% CPU Youtube Flash - 20-25% CPU .flv in Totem - 2-3% CPU Clearly, there is optimisation work needed here.
notauser 17y ago
Any kind of JavaScript while(true) loop will lock up the page, so you aren't safe from incompetent coders just yet. Depending on the browser and the OS that can bog down the CPU as badly as Flash. (And there's no move towards parallel execution of in-page dom-touching JavaScript yet - web workers can't do it. Concurrency is such an issue that you can't even pass a function into a web worker in case it has bound variables - it's separate-script-and-message-passing only.)

est 17y ago

Seriously, if Flash disappeared, ads made by canvas or SVG inserted via obfuscated javascript is harder to block than plain Flash ads.