4 ms·

So what is going to replace miners? What incentive will people have to verify the integrity of this new blockchain? Is it still vulnerable to 51% attacks?

by jordigh 11y ago

joeyspn 11y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof-of-stake https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof-of-stake ?
- dacox 11y ago
  https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Altcoin#Proof_Of_Stake https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Altcoin#Proof_Of_Stake Because these attacks exists, including Peercoin[3] and Blackcoin[4] proof of stake cryptocurrencies have "master" public keys that control the blockchain. I wonder who would control that ;) This class of cryptocurrency is either insecure or centralized, however proof of stake (based on a PoW currency) is useful in some systems because gaining stake is costly, but it isn't workable for bootstrapping distributed consensus. This would be an interesting though experiment. If they implemented proof of stake based on a proof of work currency, like Bitcoin, what would happen if the new currency took off and Bitcoin started to die? Now there's a threat model that requires unmotivated miners to still secure the network, both networks.
dacox 11y ago
The pessimist in me says nothing, but we'll see.
wmf 11y ago
https://www.stellar.org/blog/stellar-consensus-protocol-proof-code/ https://www.stellar.org/blog/stellar-consensus-protocol-proo... ? But seriously, "OBC currently offers two implementations of PBFT (Practical Byzantine Fault Tolerant) consensus, as a means to validate transactions".
sanswork 11y ago
When you know the participants PoW is just a waste. You can use something like round robin to determine who gets to add the next block. That means that no it's not.
- brighton36 11y ago
  Why do you even need blocks? If you trust each other, what's wrong with signed messages?
  - sanswork 11y ago
    Less overhead in distribution and signed messages between individual parties doesn't allow third party(within the system ) auditing. I can sign a message saying I am giving you $10 of Bank B's debt but there is no way with just signed messages for you to know I still have ownership of that debt.
    - brighton36 11y ago
      That's not even a little true. Have you worked on finance code before?
      - sanswork 11y ago
        What part isn't true? I've worked in ETL at Morgan Stanley. So not only finance code. But their data systems.
        brighton36 11y ago
        The part about downloading entire databases to view your subset of the data. If this were an efficiency - SMTP would have blocks. Additionally, I am doubtful of your claim because information is the product of all hedge funds and investment banking operations - and to hand out your information to your competitors gives them tradable information at your expense. (Which youd know if you worked with any non-trivally finance operation)
mbgaxyz 11y ago
For consortium chains, one possible solution is mining diversity which enforces round-robin mining/creation of blocks. http://www.multichain.com/qa/13/multichain-blockchain-mining http://www.multichain.com/qa/13/multichain-blockchain-mining

So what is going to replace miners? What incentive will people have to verify the integrity of this new blockchain? Is it still vulnerable to 51% attacks?

by jordigh 11y ago

So what is going to replace miners? What incentive will people have to verify the integrity of this new blockchain? Is it still vulnerable to 51% attacks?

joeyspn 11y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof-of-stake https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof-of-stake ?

dacox 11y ago
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Altcoin#Proof_Of_Stake https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Altcoin#Proof_Of_Stake Because these attacks exists, including Peercoin[3] and Blackcoin[4] proof of stake cryptocurrencies have "master" public keys that control the blockchain. I wonder who would control that ;) This class of cryptocurrency is either insecure or centralized, however proof of stake (based on a PoW currency) is useful in some systems because gaining stake is costly, but it isn't workable for bootstrapping distributed consensus. This would be an interesting though experiment. If they implemented proof of stake based on a proof of work currency, like Bitcoin, what would happen if the new currency took off and Bitcoin started to die? Now there's a threat model that requires unmotivated miners to still secure the network, both networks.

dacox 11y ago

The pessimist in me says nothing, but we'll see.

wmf 11y ago

https://www.stellar.org/blog/stellar-consensus-protocol-proof-code/ https://www.stellar.org/blog/stellar-consensus-protocol-proo... ? But seriously, "OBC currently offers two implementations of PBFT (Practical Byzantine Fault Tolerant) consensus, as a means to validate transactions".

sanswork 11y ago

When you know the participants PoW is just a waste. You can use something like round robin to determine who gets to add the next block. That means that no it's not.

brighton36 11y ago
Why do you even need blocks? If you trust each other, what's wrong with signed messages?
- sanswork 11y ago
  Less overhead in distribution and signed messages between individual parties doesn't allow third party(within the system ) auditing. I can sign a message saying I am giving you $10 of Bank B's debt but there is no way with just signed messages for you to know I still have ownership of that debt.
  - brighton36 11y ago
    That's not even a little true. Have you worked on finance code before?
    - sanswork 11y ago
      What part isn't true? I've worked in ETL at Morgan Stanley. So not only finance code. But their data systems.
      - brighton36 11y ago
        The part about downloading entire databases to view your subset of the data. If this were an efficiency - SMTP would have blocks. Additionally, I am doubtful of your claim because information is the product of all hedge funds and investment banking operations - and to hand out your information to your competitors gives them tradable information at your expense. (Which youd know if you worked with any non-trivally finance operation)

mbgaxyz 11y ago

For consortium chains, one possible solution is mining diversity which enforces round-robin mining/creation of blocks. http://www.multichain.com/qa/13/multichain-blockchain-mining http://www.multichain.com/qa/13/multichain-blockchain-mining