13 ms·

How I Interview

150 points by RKoutnik 11y ago

padolsey 11y ago
This methodology may correctly filter the candidates the author is seeking, but if this made up the bulk of any interview I attended, it would probably turn me off the role. FWIW, when I attend an interview, as either party, I want to have a discussion, a bit of back-and-forth, and crucially to determine if it's likely we'd be able to get on, day to day. Coding competency is not the only important thing. And anyway, it can easily be established via a bit of white-boarding, conversation, and preparatory reviews of any existing work they have online. If you are in doubt, then maybe pair on a fun little algorithm,... something that's not solved, and not dull. Something original would be best. Being given a pre-packaged task to complete feels very procedural and bland...
- i_s 11y ago
  > Being given a pre-packaged task to complete feels very procedural and bland... This part is important: > Having a consistent test also allows me to compare candidates easily and without bias. Also, I think most people would care more about the content of the exercise, rather than whether it is prepackaged or not.
  - padolsey 11y ago
    I get that. I just would rather not feel like a monkey being prodded whenever I attend an interview. An interview being repeatable (for comparative purposes) brings no value to the candidate.
    - RKoutnik 11y ago
      It does if the candidate is something that the interviewer might be biased against (race, gender, opinions on Star Wars). Avoiding bias in interviews helps everyone except those who rely on irrelevant qualities to get jobs.
      - padolsey 11y ago
        Maybe, but I feel that the answer to such biases is to introspect and understand your potential prejudgements, and then not let them specifically sway you. Anyway, the accepted alternative, an entirely meritocratic process, is fraught with issues too, as the playing field is inegalitarian to begin with -- so those candidates who might be the victims of unfair biases could already be at a disadvantage since they might not have received the privileges that preempt meritocratic success. It is assumed that relying totally on a candidate's coding ability somehow avoids the issue of bias and works to mend our diversity issues in this sector, but it actually merely plays into the entrenched state of things. I don't have a solution, but this entire problem-set is certainly deserving of more nuanced thought.
  - sheepmullet 11y ago
    > This part is important: > Having a consistent test also allows me to compare candidates easily and without bias. No, it isn't. The person who performs best on the test is often not the person who will perform the best on the job. Tests like these should always be pass/fail.
- deleted 11y ago
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fillskills 11y ago
Interesting points. Like the idea of the giving a developer actual development tasks. This is how I interview - We have a bitbucket set up with a project very similar to our current site. We simply ask everyone who applies to get the code from Bitbucket and install it locally. And then fix a simple bug. Most developers who are well versed in the basics are able to install the code in 2-4 hours. People new to something specific are stuck for a day. It helps us weed out people who are a) Not comfortable reading code b) Not hungry enough to ask questions or google a little bit if they do not understand c) Not able to debug and fix simple issues. So far all developers who have lasted that test have been good technically. Its another challenge to keep them motivated over long periods of time.
- ilostmykeys 11y ago
  I love the bug fixing stuff especially if I'm allowed to re-architect your stuff so that it's less prone to bugs to start with ;)
  - fillskills 11y ago
    Thats the trick to guarantee a job
vdnkh 11y ago
I had an interview like this recently. A "live coding" exercise after (in their words) two excellent phone screens. The test was to implement a class which would be run through a bunch of unit tests. Simple right? It turned out to be a disaster. First was the choice of language. They offered to take it in JS, Ruby, Python, or Java. I'm a .NET developer whose competent with JS, but I really could be better at it. I asked to take it in C# but they refused and said it's not about specific language knowledge. So I did in in JS. I turned out to be almost completely about JS specifics and quirks. Because I've been learning JS recently, I've had the fortune of having to avoid the bad parts. When asked to recite them I struggled. This part is obviously my fault but if I had been allowed to perform in C#, I would have done a hell of a lot better. Second was the environment. I have very limited exposure to programming on a Macbook and I spent the first few minutes struggling to translate all of my shortcuts. During a timed test it was pretty disheartening to not be able to type as fast as I could. I haven't used Sublime before but the default theme was near unreadable and I was allowed to switch it after a few minutes. The third was the test framework. I really wasn't familiar with how Jasmine worked in the browser, and it showed. Again, my fault. But taking 5 minutes to familiarize me with their setup would have made things go much, much better for me. Before I get jumped on for blaming them for my poor performance, this was for a test automation role. I explicitly said that my JS/Jasmine/etc. skills were not that great and they still brought me on site. Honestly, I would have preferred the whiteboard. Each test took up nearly the entire period, leaving very short time for talks about what I really care about - culture. I have a Github with a bunch of good projects. I've been employed as a developer for a while now. I can obviously program well. Drop the bullshit and lets talk.
- alexandercrohde 11y ago
  I sympathize. I remember when I was first applying for tech jobs I was often given a mac (which I was unfamiliar with) set in Qwerty (I used Dvorak) and told "just write this." Even asking them to change it to Dvorak for me (since I wasn't familiar with the menus) I could tell they were judging me. Once I bit the the bullet and learned the mac interface suddenly people were assuming I was super hardcore because I use Dvorak.... Stereotypes cut both ways I guess.
- RKoutnik 11y ago
lilcarlyung 11y ago
Would be funny to come into an interview as the candidate and give the employer pre-packaged tasks to complete to evaluate them on, to decide if I as the candidate actually want to work there.
- deleted 11y ago
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- RKoutnik 11y ago
  I've got the outline for another article along these lines (how I prepare for an interview) though it's been longer since I've been through an interview. As a candidate, you'd bring less pre-packaged tasks and more questions and things to look out for. When I'm on the other side of the interviewing table, I evaluate the company as much as they evaluate me. Things like "What does it take to succeed at this company?" and "If I'm not meeting expectations, how will I know?" are critical to see if you want to work there. Anyway, stay tuned!
- phamilton 11y ago
  I've been toying with the idea of asking for a reverse interview. I get to ask about the challenges they've solved in great detail and how they dealt with potential and actual issues. They get to answer and decide to I know what I'm talking about.
  - maccard 11y ago
    Is this not the whole point of the interview for you now anyway? For me, if I go in somewhere and get grilled for X hours and they deprive me of a chance to ask about certain aspects of the company, you can guarantee u won't take the job.
    - phamilton 11y ago
      That's what I'm counting on. Most startups are sufficiently desperate for hiring that you can ask for things like "I'd like to grab coffee with the CTO" and they will do it (that seems trivial at a 10 person company, but I've heard it happen at 100+ person teams). Where I am right now, I'm pretty happy just turning down the interview if I don't oblige.
joshvm 11y ago
"You wouldn't evaluate a chef's ability to cook by depriving them of saucepans, why cut off Google?" Depriving of recipe books is perhaps a better analogy? I think depriving of saucepans would be like hiding the keyboard! That actually works pretty well, even doctors are expected to look things up if they get stuck. Why should programmers be any different? SO is extremely useful for funny edge cases in software that someone else spent an afternoon trying to figure out.
cmillard 11y ago
Completely am on-board with the descriptions of false positive/negative I agree that this seems like a good way to establish someone's technical competence. I do wonder though from the interviewee's side what the optimal time to spend on one person is. It's kind of like dating right? (Well what I imagine dating would be like if I lived in a big city) You have concurrent first impressions with maybe second and third follow ups before you seal the deal. This may be a bit like asking for a relationship on the first date. Demonstrating ability in this manner works for more junior people who maybe don't have a github or other personal projects, but I'd consider discussing and reviewing those more valuable.
alexandercrohde 11y ago
I was really liking this piece, but one inherent flaw of the example given is that I've already implemented minesweeper in javascript once a couple years ago for a programming challenge, so I'd have a major advantage over most candidates. For example, I immediately recalled I solved the problem of mine placement with a 1 liner like: var cells = ('*'.repeat(mineCount) + ' '.repeat(size - mineCount)).split("").sort(function() { return math.rand() - .5; });
- ilostmykeys 11y ago
  typo: math.rand --> Math.random
- icecube 11y ago
  Correct me if I am wrong, but wont this result in the mines being placed in the front more often than not? sort(function() { return math.rand() - .5; }) doesnt result in a truely random distribution.
  - deadbeef404 11y ago
    > doesnt result in a truely random distribution. It evenly distributes over 0-1. Removing .5, just distributes it evenly between -0.5 and +0.5. Sort basically says >0, the first option should come first and if <0, the second option should come first. I believe this still maintains a random distribution and is quite a tidy solution. Thoughts?
    - re 11y ago
      It can be extremely biased, and the results can depend on the sort algorithm, because what you're randomizing is the comparison results, not the order. Consider insertion sort: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insertion_sort https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insertion_sort As the list is sorted, elements are inserted from the back by finding the first element that the new element is smaller than. The last element to be inserted is the one at the end of the unsorted array, and, with a random comparator, it has a 50% chance of being "larger" than the biggest of the rest of the elements, and thus remaining at the end of the list. Microsoft used this technique to "randomize" a list of browsers back in 2010, but, when viewing the page in IE, it ended up putting IE in the last position (out of a set of five browsers) 50% of the time: http://www.robweir.com/blog/2010/02/microsoft-random-browser-ballot.html http://www.robweir.com/blog/2010/02/microsoft-random-browser...
ryandrake 11y ago
What? "Implement as much of Minesweeper as you can in an hour?" If you're going to build something--evens something as simple as Minesweeper, you're still going to need time to plan it out, diagram it, decide which modules call into which other ones, decide on the data structures, etc. Diving right into writing code so you can get _something_ done in an hour is probably the worst strategy if your goal is to do it right. I'd rather work with the person who would approach that by taking 3 hours to plan, 3 hours to code, and 2 hours to bug fix, rather than the "Ready, Fire, Aim" person who took 1 hour to code, 4 hours to fix what he did, 8 more hours to find his design was totally wrong and re-do major portions of it, 8 more fixing the bugs in that version........ Unless you plan to filter out the people who just jumped into the code, in which the exercise is just a trick question.
- RKoutnik 11y ago
  I've had folks who just jump into the code without any planning. It usually bites them about 20-30 minutes in. On the other hand, I remember one guy who spent the first 20 minutes planning and only 40 coding and ended up doing better than most. The point here is not "Write as many lines of code as you can". I want the candidate to plan - it's a crucial part of the job. FizzBuzz, sorts and the like don't require much planning. Minesweeper does.
  - infraruby 11y ago
    > I want the candidate to plan Then ask for that, and assess the plan, otherwise you're expecting Carnac the Magnificent: http://raganwald.com/2015/05/08/carnac-the-magnificent.html http://raganwald.com/2015/05/08/carnac-the-magnificent.html
  - tzs 11y ago
    I decided to have a go at this, even though I am at best a JavaScript dabbler. I did plan...but if you were watching me you would not have seen me planning. I decided right away that my display was going to be a table with one table cell per Minesweeper cell, with the table cell's ID of the form "X_Y" where X and Y are the coordinates of the corresponding Minesweeper cell. I did the rest of my planning while getting that HTML written (first in vim, and then when that was going too slow even with macro assistance by writing a little Perl script to generate the HTML). I was not able to do it in an hour. At the end of one hour, I had everything for a rudimentary Minesweeper coded, but had a bug in the code that reveals the cells around a clicked empty cell, and it took another 20 minutes to find and fix that. Here is what I came up with: https://github.com/tzs/interview_minesweeper https://github.com/tzs/interview_minesweeper The initial commit was made at the one hour point, so that would have been what I would have turned in during an interview.
autarch 11y ago
Where I work we do something similar but it's a "homework" question we give to people who pass our initial resume screen (https://github.com/maxmind/dev-hire-homework https://github.com/maxmind/dev-hire-homework). We tell them not to spend more than 1-2 hours on it. We decide whether or not to interview them based on the quality of the code they produce. In the interview we ask things like: * what is OO and how is it different from procedural programming? (high level conceptual) * why do you want to leave your current position? * what appeals to you about this job? what do you think you might like least? * what is the purpose of testing? * tell us about the programming languages you've used. what's your favorite? what do you like most about it? least? I'd rather have a more conversational interview after already having established their ability to code.
- collyw 11y ago
  Homework exercises are a large burden on the candidate, so expect to half your pool for that reason alone. I only do about half or less of these, as most are crappy an unrelated to the job. I prefer to plan and do things thoroughly, not rush a solution out in a couple of hours. And to be honest asking for more than a couple of hours is more than you should be asking unless you are willing to pay.
  - autarch 11y ago
    We've had a pretty good response rate when asking people to do this. Of course, I totally understand why someone would say no. I'd love to find a better way to evaluate someone's skills, but absent a good public FOSS portofolio, what are my options?
    - collyw 11y ago
      Ask them to bring in a sample of work and discuss it? I have plenty of work I could show people, but I don't have on github. Admittedly that won't work for everyone.
  - georgemcbay 11y ago
    "Homework exercises are a large burden on the candidate" People keep saying that, but I'd MUCH, MUCH rather do a single couple of hour "homework exercise" that I can submit than do a full day (or more!) of "implement whatever pet algorithm/data structure I think is really swell" for like 3-6 different people in series, which is how a horrifyingly large amount of companies still tend to do things. Give me a task, let me do it, have your tech people discuss my solution amongst themselves. If they like my solution bring me in to discuss it (to verify I didn't "cheat") and to determine culture fit. Seems like a lot less wasted time for everyone with far few of the stressors (hard time pressure, etc) that make most tech interviews so amazingly terrible.
freework 11y ago
I still think the best way to interview a programmer is to just talk to them. Ask them about their experiences. I've known a bunch of programmers in my time, and I feel I can tell if someone is the real deal within a few minutes of them speaking. I'm happily employed at the moment (knock on wood) but when that day comes where I have to go back out an interview, I don't plan on wasting any time doing these kinds of interviews where they make you spend hours doing some kind of programming challenge. To me it's an indicator that the company doesn't have anybody knowledgeable to actually pick out the best programmers.
- infraruby 11y ago
  > I still think the best way to interview a programmer is to just talk to them. You're wrong: http://www.ioatwork.com/selection-methods-almost-a-century-of-research/ http://www.ioatwork.com/selection-methods-almost-a-century-o...
  - collyw 11y ago
    I can see this being misinterperted badly in the field of software engineering (it doesn't seem specific to software) as it says work sample tests are best, yet most software is large scale, and takes time to develop and ought to involve planning, architecture, coding, technology selection, testing. So most "sample work" for an interview will actually be nothing like that but a short rushed version that is supposed to emulate it in some way.
    - infraruby 11y ago
      > I can see this being misinterperted badly in the field of software engineering (it doesn't seem specific to software) Would you prefer Google's take on it? http://www.wired.com/2015/04/hire-like-google/ http://www.wired.com/2015/04/hire-like-google/ > So most "sample work" for an interview will actually be nothing like that but a short rushed version that is supposed to emulate it in some way. Yes, that's the idea! And it works.
      - 11y ago
Yen 11y ago
Am I the only one who, when being interviewed, doesn't mind whiteboard coding? At interviews where I've later been given an offer, it's usually a relatively small algorithmic design challenge, where the specifics don't matter, just the pseudocode. In interviews I've given involving whiteboard programming, I've always emphasized that it doesn't have to be valid or even semi-valid code for any language, just a semi-rigorous pseudocode expression of an idea. I think, "if done correctly", whiteboard coding is a good filter for those who can think algorithmically, who can catch the bugs that aren't typos, but incorrect assumptions. That said, that sort of mindset may not be what you need for your role. Need to consider that. --- Tangentially, one of the better technical interview experiences I've had involved chatting for a while, the interviewer describing an actual problem they'd had (relevant to the role and the company's product), and discussing my approach to the problem. (and passing or failing the interview wasn't dependent on using the exact same approach...)
- krisdol 11y ago
  > Am I the only one who, when being interviewed, doesn't mind whiteboard coding? I'm sure you're not, but my experience is completely opposite of yours. I'm still relatively early on in my career (I've had 3 software jobs, but have grown up coding since I was 12), but every job I scored was one that didn't use a whiteboard/paper problem during an interview. I got a lot better at whiteboards with practice; but early on, every whiteboard problem I received resulted in me blanking on even the most basic concepts. I would have no idea how to solve problems on a whiteboard that I explicitly solved in a codebase the week prior. Then I'd step out of the interview and the solution would just hit me. It's like state-dependent learning, in a way. As I got tested more on whiteboard coding, I figured out that whole problem-solving process better, and I do pretty well on them now. Still, I continue complain about those problems. They feel like a completely foreign, perpendicular challenge compared to having a discussion, answering questions, or writing code to solve the same problem. It's not a skill I've ever used outside of interviews, nor is it a situation that has ever been simulated at any workplace I've been at. There's nothing wrong with evaluating a candidate's whiteboard presentation skills. If the goal is specifically to evaluate technical or algorithmic knowledge, it's worth taking into account that testing for that knowledge on a whiteboard can introduce a side-effect that bottlenecks the candidate's ability to present their answer.
mailshanx 11y ago
My personal, preferred way to interview data scientists (besides administering a work sample test) is to talk to them about the most challenging effort they've been a part of. Start with understanding the overall business context and the technical infrastructure they were working with, and gradually follow through until you understand the key ideas that underpin the innovation. The key is to get them to explain things until you understand the essence at a foundational level - hopefully you understand what combination of the notions of statistical independence / power / dimensionality / algorithmic complexity has birthed novel system or algorithm they built. The process selects for people who have a) already built something substantial, and b) have the communication skills to explain it.
refuzed 11y ago
I did the challenge and it was a fun endeavor. I'm mainly a C# dev. I dabble in AngularJS at work but don't consider myself a pro. I'd never tried drawing to the canvas so this seemed like a good challenge. I managed to get something fairly workable, albeit ugly code-wise, banged out in 1hr. If you reviewed my google searches, you would see that: - I didn't know how to init a 2d array in javascript - I didn't know that the things on the canvas couldn't be accessed directly for click handlers - I cheated on the solution for finding neighbors because I was running out of time *edit formatting
bradlys 11y ago
> "Candidates are also reviewing a company. They'll be dedicating several years of their lives to this workplace and will be looking at the interview filter to see what it takes to get in." Really? I barely know anyone who works for several years at any place. I'm looking at whether I can tolerate it for six months. That's only so I can take a job search break for a few months before hitting the grind again. I'd love to work at a place that's so great that I'd be there for several years but that's hard to imagine. Most companies I've interviewed with don't exist in 3 years, let alone 'several' (7+).
- greggyb 11y ago
  This is a very small niche that you live in. I can tell you that a candidate with 7+ 6 month engagements would be unlikely to get a position at my current company (mid-sized business intelligence consultancy), and simply wouldn't be considered at my last company (old school enterprise environment). The startup scene is not representative of the job market for the majority of people.
  - krisdol 11y ago
    >The startup scene is not representative of the job market for the majority of people. On that note, I'm surprised that startups would hire frequent-short-stint employees. The startup I work at has a great proportion of people who have stuck around since the early days; yet I have worked (and interviewed) at large companies where everyone bails within a couple of years max. I don't know what the West Coast "scene" is like, so my company probably doesn't resemble SV startups, but the pay is great, the people are smart and passionate, and the businesses is hitting all of its goals, so I'm not complaining.
gkop 11y ago
Do JavaScript experts consider JSBin a decent environment for this task? JavaScript is a bit verbose and I would resent simply the aspect of having to write a substantial amount of JavaScript without autocomplete. I just played with JSBin and it doesn't have autocomplete out of the box. Edit: whoa I just re-read the OP and found this > Most [candidates] tend to use the laptop & JSBin provided That's super hypocritical, OP (see your paragraph headed "Comfortable situation")! If you "provide" them with an environment of course most are going to use what you provide since that is what you are suggesting. So now you're filtering for people for whom that laptop model and the JSBin tool are familiar and comfortable. Or in the case of those that reject your environment and choose their own familiar and comfortable laptop and editor, you are filtering for those with the self-confidence to reject the suggestion of the interviewer, which doesn't really help with your stated goal. It's a shame because I like some of your other points :/
jarjoura 11y ago
I've been giving interviews for almost a decade now and I've both tried and seen many different approaches. Yet, I think the MOST important part of the 45-60 minute time slot I get with a candidate (or future coworker), is the conversation. 1) I want to see passion for solving problems in the space. There are endless problems to solve in the industry, but I want to know they'll be excited to work on my team's problems. 2) What are they doing here? Was this a numbers game (interview at a ton of different places in hopes of getting one good offer)? Were they recruited or did they actively seek this position out? I've seen candidates where in one interview I have to throw multiple problems at them, because they think about it for 30 seconds and then come up with a correct solution and quickly write it out on the board. I'll usually run out of questions for these candidates. Ultimately, white-board coding works well for some, and is a complete disaster for others. Yet I don't believe it means white-board interviews should be thrown away in an effort to be "fair." I just think as engineers, if we really want to land a position at a Google, Facebook, or Uber, etc, is it too much to ask that we study up on our algorithms?
tokenadult 11y ago
I wonder if the OP has ever read any actual research on effective hiring practices. I have a FAQ for that.[1] The short answer that research gives is to set up an actual work-sample test for the job in question. The longer answer is to add in a VALIDATED test of the worker's general cognitive ability. But if that kind of test isn't validated, the employer can be subject to legal consequences in the United States if the test has "adverse impact" on protected minority groups. Rather than just making up hiring procedures, companies ought to do research on what works for finding better workers and what is not legally risky for the company. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4613543 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4613543
- enraged_camel 11y ago
  I can confirm that this works incredibly well. At my previous job, my team was responsible for technical training. So our interview process involved having the interviewee give a 30-minute presentation and teach us (the interviewers) a technical topic. Everyone we hired ended up having stellar job performance.
acjohnson55 11y ago
As a counterpoint, I'm fairly confident it's possible to hire engineers without seeing the code anything at all. I'm not an expert, but I do know that I've never felt like a homework/sample code/whiteboard exercise I've done has borne any real resemblance to the work I do. I'm generally a fan of getting a candidate to tell me about aspects of their previous work that relate to the skills the job requires. I wrote this at my last job on the topic: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alanjohnson/were-hiring-engineers-all-wrong_b_7973484.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alanjohnson/were-hiring-engine...
- Consultant32452 11y ago
  I've never been required to provide a code sample for a job interview nor have I ever asked for one. I've had pretty good luck sussing out who knows what they're doing based on their ability to talk in detail about what work they've been doing.
grecy 11y ago
I'm a Software Engineer, have been passionate about computers my entire life, and I've never once played Minesweeper. I actually have no idea how.
ronilan 11y ago
So, like, my own personal experience... A couple of years ago I applied for a certain company that this year turned out to be a unicorn. The automated reply said to build a Minesweeper. So I did. It took a several hours to get into a shape that is playable. Then it took several days to polish it into app store quality. You can play here: http://www.ronilan.com/bugsweeper/ http://www.ronilan.com/bugsweeper/ Download here: http://www.appstore.com/bugsweepergame http://www.appstore.com/bugsweepergame And copy as much as you want from here: http://www.ronilan.com/bugsweeper/js/bugsweeper.js http://www.ronilan.com/bugsweeper/js/bugsweeper.js If you are wondering how it went from there, they were "evasive". Then I got a softball "center a div" interview with one of their front-ends. Then I got a polite no thanks from the recruiter. And that's all I have to say about it.
- imh 11y ago
  Automated response questions are so disrespectful. "We won't take the time to see if we're in any way interested, and won't unless you devote your own time."
  - Paul_Dessert 11y ago
    Absolutely. I got one a couple of weeks ago. It asked me to design some API and other arbitrary garbage. Obviously an auto response. They also had the nerve to "cap" it at 10 hours. I won't even respond to these "companies" anymore. It's a waste of time.
  - dvcrn 11y ago
    Even worse are automated responses from a no-reply emails like jobvite or friends. If I already took the time to interview with you, invested hours of my personal time into you, maybe even took a day off just so I can make your weird schedule, give me at least a personal answer or a chance to ask for questions. I love to learn new things and actually really want to learn about the mistakes I made. Giving me a "no thank you" from a noreply after all that time is like a big middle finger in the face.
- NumberCruncher 11y ago
  I like the game!
mixmastamyk 11y ago
Uggh, been interviewing this month and it has been mostly awful. From "who was your worst boss/what is your worst quality" to "solve this problem with us watching, clock ticking, and a $150k on the line." Also, the only profession (I know of) where twenty years experience is considered a detriment. Perhaps fashion modeling is another? ;)
- geebee 11y ago
  It's odd, isn't it? Twenty years of experience is considered good, but twenty extra years of age is considered bad. This actually goes a long way to explaining why interviews are such an odd experience - companies recruit for experience (must have launched successfully with experience scaling), and then testing for exam-ready knowledge of second year algorithms and data structures. I suppose another way to put it is that employers would like people with 20 years of experience who graduated from college last week.
koevet 11y ago
I have decided that I will no longer take technical interviews. I have 25 years of software development under my belt, I published a book, spoke at various conferences in Europe, have a Github profile (admittedly not very lively), worked for well-established enterprises and have great references. Why shall I still prove myself? If I was a senior lawyer or an architect joining a new studio, I strongly doubt I would have to go through an interview to test if I can use the drawing table or if I know the body of laws of my countries. It is just ridiculous. As I work as a freelance, my approach will be to offer 2 weeks of work on site for free. After the 2nd week, if they still think I'm good enough for the company, I will charge the 2 weeks, otherwise goodbye and no questions asked.
- justjimmy 11y ago
  Shouldn't that be the other way around? If it doesn't work out, charge the 2 weeks, if it does, you get a job?
  - emerongi 11y ago
    If you go with the notion of "I don't need to prove myself, I'm good enough - look at what I've made", then this is exactly how it should be. Otherwise you're still proving yourself and providing 2 weeks of your highly valuable time for free. Those 2 weeks should determine whether it works out on other levels (e.g. are both parties comfortable with working each other) and if you do work in that time, you better charge for it.
- dasboth 11y ago
  That sounds like a sensible way to work as a freelancer. Have you already had success with it or is it just a plan for the future for now? I'd be interested in hearing how it pans/panned out.
  - koevet 11y ago
    Well, yes and no. For around 3 years, I have been running my own consulting company with a friend. We were doing pretty much what I do as a 'solo' consultant, except that we were fronted by a company. This automatically removed the need for interviews. As soon as I sold my company and got back to solo consulting, I had to re-enter into this ridiculous circus which are technical interviews. So, to answer your question, I will apply this approach from 2016.
crazylila 11y ago
At the Beginning Be warm ask them how they are Listen Be considerate ssk if it’s still a good time Don't Be Too Familiar Use Appropriate Language Explain what is going to happen
s3nnyy 11y ago
I live in Switzerland and I used to code for a living. As an external, I hire engineers for different startups in Zurich. As I got deeper into IT-recruiting, I realised that candidate filtering at the top of the funnel is fundamentally broken. The market for software engineers is different from the market for - let's say - actors. Especially for senior developers there is way more demand than there is supply. This has the very important implication that as a company you can not annoy candidates too much. Asking for tedious homework, too many coding challenges or references might be already overkill. Good people do not really need to work for you; they can also work for Google Zürich (biggest engineering office outside the US), or other cool tech-companies / ETH-spinoffs. If you look for a tech-job in the most liveable city in the world, check out my story "8 reasons why I moved to Switzerland to work in IT" on https://medium.com/@iwaninzurich/eight-reasons-why-i-moved-to-switzerland-to-work-in-it-c7ac18af4f90 https://medium.com/@iwaninzurich/eight-reasons-why-i-moved-t... or send me a mail to the mail-address in my HN-profile.
- madez 11y ago
  Don’t get me wrong, but your comment reads like an ad.
  - s3nnyy 11y ago
    I am definitely biased: Besides coding, I source, screen, and interview software engineers that want to move to Switzerland.
  - rorykoehler 11y ago
    Native advertising ... in the comments.
    - s3nnyy 11y ago
      I sincerely believe that living and working in Switzerland is nicer than anywhere else in Europe. With my comments I raise awareness for my side-income but primarily I try adding value to HN discussions.
maindrive 11y ago
I somehow think that the interviewer should also be interviewed at the same time. If you have that kind of experience under your belt, one might definitely be interested in knowing if the person he/she would work under is really capable or not ? Working with/under someone lesser than you n same person is taking your interview, its kind of a insult to be honest.
Kurtz79 11y ago
"Finally, I assumed that most everyone played Minesweeper at one point and I wouldn't need to explain the rules."¨ I stopped making such assumptions since I started interviewing. Warming up question: "How would you check that two strings are the anagram of each other ?" "What's an anagram ?"

150 points by RKoutnik 11y ago

This methodology may correctly filter the candidates the author is seeking, but if this made up the bulk of any interview I attended, it would probably turn me off the role. FWIW, when I attend an interview, as either party, I want to have a discussion, a bit of back-and-forth, and crucially to determine if it's likely we'd be able to get on, day to day. Coding competency is not the only important thing. And anyway, it can easily be established via a bit of white-boarding, conversation, and preparatory reviews of any existing work they have online. If you are in doubt, then maybe pair on a fun little algorithm,... something that's not solved, and not dull. Something original would be best. Being given a pre-packaged task to complete feels very procedural and bland...

i_s 11y ago
> Being given a pre-packaged task to complete feels very procedural and bland... This part is important: > Having a consistent test also allows me to compare candidates easily and without bias. Also, I think most people would care more about the content of the exercise, rather than whether it is prepackaged or not.
- padolsey 11y ago
  I get that. I just would rather not feel like a monkey being prodded whenever I attend an interview. An interview being repeatable (for comparative purposes) brings no value to the candidate.
  - RKoutnik 11y ago
    It does if the candidate is something that the interviewer might be biased against (race, gender, opinions on Star Wars). Avoiding bias in interviews helps everyone except those who rely on irrelevant qualities to get jobs.
    - padolsey 11y ago
      Maybe, but I feel that the answer to such biases is to introspect and understand your potential prejudgements, and then not let them specifically sway you. Anyway, the accepted alternative, an entirely meritocratic process, is fraught with issues too, as the playing field is inegalitarian to begin with -- so those candidates who might be the victims of unfair biases could already be at a disadvantage since they might not have received the privileges that preempt meritocratic success. It is assumed that relying totally on a candidate's coding ability somehow avoids the issue of bias and works to mend our diversity issues in this sector, but it actually merely plays into the entrenched state of things. I don't have a solution, but this entire problem-set is certainly deserving of more nuanced thought.
- sheepmullet 11y ago
  > This part is important: > Having a consistent test also allows me to compare candidates easily and without bias. No, it isn't. The person who performs best on the test is often not the person who will perform the best on the job. Tests like these should always be pass/fail.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

fillskills 11y ago

Interesting points. Like the idea of the giving a developer actual development tasks. This is how I interview - We have a bitbucket set up with a project very similar to our current site. We simply ask everyone who applies to get the code from Bitbucket and install it locally. And then fix a simple bug. Most developers who are well versed in the basics are able to install the code in 2-4 hours. People new to something specific are stuck for a day. It helps us weed out people who are a) Not comfortable reading code b) Not hungry enough to ask questions or google a little bit if they do not understand c) Not able to debug and fix simple issues. So far all developers who have lasted that test have been good technically. Its another challenge to keep them motivated over long periods of time.

ilostmykeys 11y ago
I love the bug fixing stuff especially if I'm allowed to re-architect your stuff so that it's less prone to bugs to start with ;)
- fillskills 11y ago
  Thats the trick to guarantee a job

vdnkh 11y ago

I had an interview like this recently. A "live coding" exercise after (in their words) two excellent phone screens. The test was to implement a class which would be run through a bunch of unit tests. Simple right? It turned out to be a disaster. First was the choice of language. They offered to take it in JS, Ruby, Python, or Java. I'm a .NET developer whose competent with JS, but I really could be better at it. I asked to take it in C# but they refused and said it's not about specific language knowledge. So I did in in JS. I turned out to be almost completely about JS specifics and quirks. Because I've been learning JS recently, I've had the fortune of having to avoid the bad parts. When asked to recite them I struggled. This part is obviously my fault but if I had been allowed to perform in C#, I would have done a hell of a lot better. Second was the environment. I have very limited exposure to programming on a Macbook and I spent the first few minutes struggling to translate all of my shortcuts. During a timed test it was pretty disheartening to not be able to type as fast as I could. I haven't used Sublime before but the default theme was near unreadable and I was allowed to switch it after a few minutes. The third was the test framework. I really wasn't familiar with how Jasmine worked in the browser, and it showed. Again, my fault. But taking 5 minutes to familiarize me with their setup would have made things go much, much better for me. Before I get jumped on for blaming them for my poor performance, this was for a test automation role. I explicitly said that my JS/Jasmine/etc. skills were not that great and they still brought me on site. Honestly, I would have preferred the whiteboard. Each test took up nearly the entire period, leaving very short time for talks about what I really care about - culture. I have a Github with a bunch of good projects. I've been employed as a developer for a while now. I can obviously program well. Drop the bullshit and lets talk.

alexandercrohde 11y ago
I sympathize. I remember when I was first applying for tech jobs I was often given a mac (which I was unfamiliar with) set in Qwerty (I used Dvorak) and told "just write this." Even asking them to change it to Dvorak for me (since I wasn't familiar with the menus) I could tell they were judging me. Once I bit the the bullet and learned the mac interface suddenly people were assuming I was super hardcore because I use Dvorak.... Stereotypes cut both ways I guess.
RKoutnik 11y ago

lilcarlyung 11y ago

Would be funny to come into an interview as the candidate and give the employer pre-packaged tasks to complete to evaluate them on, to decide if I as the candidate actually want to work there.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
RKoutnik 11y ago
I've got the outline for another article along these lines (how I prepare for an interview) though it's been longer since I've been through an interview. As a candidate, you'd bring less pre-packaged tasks and more questions and things to look out for. When I'm on the other side of the interviewing table, I evaluate the company as much as they evaluate me. Things like "What does it take to succeed at this company?" and "If I'm not meeting expectations, how will I know?" are critical to see if you want to work there. Anyway, stay tuned!
phamilton 11y ago
I've been toying with the idea of asking for a reverse interview. I get to ask about the challenges they've solved in great detail and how they dealt with potential and actual issues. They get to answer and decide to I know what I'm talking about.
- maccard 11y ago
  Is this not the whole point of the interview for you now anyway? For me, if I go in somewhere and get grilled for X hours and they deprive me of a chance to ask about certain aspects of the company, you can guarantee u won't take the job.
  - phamilton 11y ago
    That's what I'm counting on. Most startups are sufficiently desperate for hiring that you can ask for things like "I'd like to grab coffee with the CTO" and they will do it (that seems trivial at a 10 person company, but I've heard it happen at 100+ person teams). Where I am right now, I'm pretty happy just turning down the interview if I don't oblige.

joshvm 11y ago

"You wouldn't evaluate a chef's ability to cook by depriving them of saucepans, why cut off Google?" Depriving of recipe books is perhaps a better analogy? I think depriving of saucepans would be like hiding the keyboard! That actually works pretty well, even doctors are expected to look things up if they get stuck. Why should programmers be any different? SO is extremely useful for funny edge cases in software that someone else spent an afternoon trying to figure out.

cmillard 11y ago

Completely am on-board with the descriptions of false positive/negative I agree that this seems like a good way to establish someone's technical competence. I do wonder though from the interviewee's side what the optimal time to spend on one person is. It's kind of like dating right? (Well what I imagine dating would be like if I lived in a big city) You have concurrent first impressions with maybe second and third follow ups before you seal the deal. This may be a bit like asking for a relationship on the first date. Demonstrating ability in this manner works for more junior people who maybe don't have a github or other personal projects, but I'd consider discussing and reviewing those more valuable.

alexandercrohde 11y ago

I was really liking this piece, but one inherent flaw of the example given is that I've already implemented minesweeper in javascript once a couple years ago for a programming challenge, so I'd have a major advantage over most candidates. For example, I immediately recalled I solved the problem of mine placement with a 1 liner like: var cells = ('*'.repeat(mineCount) + ' '.repeat(size - mineCount)).split("").sort(function() { return math.rand() - .5; });

ilostmykeys 11y ago
typo: math.rand --> Math.random
icecube 11y ago
Correct me if I am wrong, but wont this result in the mines being placed in the front more often than not? sort(function() { return math.rand() - .5; }) doesnt result in a truely random distribution.
- deadbeef404 11y ago
  > doesnt result in a truely random distribution. It evenly distributes over 0-1. Removing .5, just distributes it evenly between -0.5 and +0.5. Sort basically says >0, the first option should come first and if <0, the second option should come first. I believe this still maintains a random distribution and is quite a tidy solution. Thoughts?
  - re 11y ago
    It can be extremely biased, and the results can depend on the sort algorithm, because what you're randomizing is the comparison results, not the order. Consider insertion sort: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insertion_sort https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insertion_sort As the list is sorted, elements are inserted from the back by finding the first element that the new element is smaller than. The last element to be inserted is the one at the end of the unsorted array, and, with a random comparator, it has a 50% chance of being "larger" than the biggest of the rest of the elements, and thus remaining at the end of the list. Microsoft used this technique to "randomize" a list of browsers back in 2010, but, when viewing the page in IE, it ended up putting IE in the last position (out of a set of five browsers) 50% of the time: http://www.robweir.com/blog/2010/02/microsoft-random-browser-ballot.html http://www.robweir.com/blog/2010/02/microsoft-random-browser...

ryandrake 11y ago

What? "Implement as much of Minesweeper as you can in an hour?" If you're going to build something--evens something as simple as Minesweeper, you're still going to need time to plan it out, diagram it, decide which modules call into which other ones, decide on the data structures, etc. Diving right into writing code so you can get _something_ done in an hour is probably the worst strategy if your goal is to do it right. I'd rather work with the person who would approach that by taking 3 hours to plan, 3 hours to code, and 2 hours to bug fix, rather than the "Ready, Fire, Aim" person who took 1 hour to code, 4 hours to fix what he did, 8 more hours to find his design was totally wrong and re-do major portions of it, 8 more fixing the bugs in that version........ Unless you plan to filter out the people who just jumped into the code, in which the exercise is just a trick question.

RKoutnik 11y ago
I've had folks who just jump into the code without any planning. It usually bites them about 20-30 minutes in. On the other hand, I remember one guy who spent the first 20 minutes planning and only 40 coding and ended up doing better than most. The point here is not "Write as many lines of code as you can". I want the candidate to plan - it's a crucial part of the job. FizzBuzz, sorts and the like don't require much planning. Minesweeper does.
- infraruby 11y ago
  > I want the candidate to plan Then ask for that, and assess the plan, otherwise you're expecting Carnac the Magnificent: http://raganwald.com/2015/05/08/carnac-the-magnificent.html http://raganwald.com/2015/05/08/carnac-the-magnificent.html
- tzs 11y ago
  I decided to have a go at this, even though I am at best a JavaScript dabbler. I did plan...but if you were watching me you would not have seen me planning. I decided right away that my display was going to be a table with one table cell per Minesweeper cell, with the table cell's ID of the form "X_Y" where X and Y are the coordinates of the corresponding Minesweeper cell. I did the rest of my planning while getting that HTML written (first in vim, and then when that was going too slow even with macro assistance by writing a little Perl script to generate the HTML). I was not able to do it in an hour. At the end of one hour, I had everything for a rudimentary Minesweeper coded, but had a bug in the code that reveals the cells around a clicked empty cell, and it took another 20 minutes to find and fix that. Here is what I came up with: https://github.com/tzs/interview_minesweeper https://github.com/tzs/interview_minesweeper The initial commit was made at the one hour point, so that would have been what I would have turned in during an interview.

autarch 11y ago

Where I work we do something similar but it's a "homework" question we give to people who pass our initial resume screen (https://github.com/maxmind/dev-hire-homework https://github.com/maxmind/dev-hire-homework). We tell them not to spend more than 1-2 hours on it. We decide whether or not to interview them based on the quality of the code they produce. In the interview we ask things like: * what is OO and how is it different from procedural programming? (high level conceptual) * why do you want to leave your current position? * what appeals to you about this job? what do you think you might like least? * what is the purpose of testing? * tell us about the programming languages you've used. what's your favorite? what do you like most about it? least? I'd rather have a more conversational interview after already having established their ability to code.

collyw 11y ago
Homework exercises are a large burden on the candidate, so expect to half your pool for that reason alone. I only do about half or less of these, as most are crappy an unrelated to the job. I prefer to plan and do things thoroughly, not rush a solution out in a couple of hours. And to be honest asking for more than a couple of hours is more than you should be asking unless you are willing to pay.
- autarch 11y ago
  We've had a pretty good response rate when asking people to do this. Of course, I totally understand why someone would say no. I'd love to find a better way to evaluate someone's skills, but absent a good public FOSS portofolio, what are my options?
  - collyw 11y ago
    Ask them to bring in a sample of work and discuss it? I have plenty of work I could show people, but I don't have on github. Admittedly that won't work for everyone.
- georgemcbay 11y ago
  "Homework exercises are a large burden on the candidate" People keep saying that, but I'd MUCH, MUCH rather do a single couple of hour "homework exercise" that I can submit than do a full day (or more!) of "implement whatever pet algorithm/data structure I think is really swell" for like 3-6 different people in series, which is how a horrifyingly large amount of companies still tend to do things. Give me a task, let me do it, have your tech people discuss my solution amongst themselves. If they like my solution bring me in to discuss it (to verify I didn't "cheat") and to determine culture fit. Seems like a lot less wasted time for everyone with far few of the stressors (hard time pressure, etc) that make most tech interviews so amazingly terrible.

freework 11y ago

I still think the best way to interview a programmer is to just talk to them. Ask them about their experiences. I've known a bunch of programmers in my time, and I feel I can tell if someone is the real deal within a few minutes of them speaking. I'm happily employed at the moment (knock on wood) but when that day comes where I have to go back out an interview, I don't plan on wasting any time doing these kinds of interviews where they make you spend hours doing some kind of programming challenge. To me it's an indicator that the company doesn't have anybody knowledgeable to actually pick out the best programmers.

infraruby 11y ago
> I still think the best way to interview a programmer is to just talk to them. You're wrong: http://www.ioatwork.com/selection-methods-almost-a-century-of-research/ http://www.ioatwork.com/selection-methods-almost-a-century-o...
- collyw 11y ago
  I can see this being misinterperted badly in the field of software engineering (it doesn't seem specific to software) as it says work sample tests are best, yet most software is large scale, and takes time to develop and ought to involve planning, architecture, coding, technology selection, testing. So most "sample work" for an interview will actually be nothing like that but a short rushed version that is supposed to emulate it in some way.
  - infraruby 11y ago
    > I can see this being misinterperted badly in the field of software engineering (it doesn't seem specific to software) Would you prefer Google's take on it? http://www.wired.com/2015/04/hire-like-google/ http://www.wired.com/2015/04/hire-like-google/ > So most "sample work" for an interview will actually be nothing like that but a short rushed version that is supposed to emulate it in some way. Yes, that's the idea! And it works.
    - 11y ago

Yen 11y ago

Am I the only one who, when being interviewed, doesn't mind whiteboard coding? At interviews where I've later been given an offer, it's usually a relatively small algorithmic design challenge, where the specifics don't matter, just the pseudocode. In interviews I've given involving whiteboard programming, I've always emphasized that it doesn't have to be valid or even semi-valid code for any language, just a semi-rigorous pseudocode expression of an idea. I think, "if done correctly", whiteboard coding is a good filter for those who can think algorithmically, who can catch the bugs that aren't typos, but incorrect assumptions. That said, that sort of mindset may not be what you need for your role. Need to consider that. --- Tangentially, one of the better technical interview experiences I've had involved chatting for a while, the interviewer describing an actual problem they'd had (relevant to the role and the company's product), and discussing my approach to the problem. (and passing or failing the interview wasn't dependent on using the exact same approach...)

krisdol 11y ago
> Am I the only one who, when being interviewed, doesn't mind whiteboard coding? I'm sure you're not, but my experience is completely opposite of yours. I'm still relatively early on in my career (I've had 3 software jobs, but have grown up coding since I was 12), but every job I scored was one that didn't use a whiteboard/paper problem during an interview. I got a lot better at whiteboards with practice; but early on, every whiteboard problem I received resulted in me blanking on even the most basic concepts. I would have no idea how to solve problems on a whiteboard that I explicitly solved in a codebase the week prior. Then I'd step out of the interview and the solution would just hit me. It's like state-dependent learning, in a way. As I got tested more on whiteboard coding, I figured out that whole problem-solving process better, and I do pretty well on them now. Still, I continue complain about those problems. They feel like a completely foreign, perpendicular challenge compared to having a discussion, answering questions, or writing code to solve the same problem. It's not a skill I've ever used outside of interviews, nor is it a situation that has ever been simulated at any workplace I've been at. There's nothing wrong with evaluating a candidate's whiteboard presentation skills. If the goal is specifically to evaluate technical or algorithmic knowledge, it's worth taking into account that testing for that knowledge on a whiteboard can introduce a side-effect that bottlenecks the candidate's ability to present their answer.

mailshanx 11y ago

My personal, preferred way to interview data scientists (besides administering a work sample test) is to talk to them about the most challenging effort they've been a part of. Start with understanding the overall business context and the technical infrastructure they were working with, and gradually follow through until you understand the key ideas that underpin the innovation. The key is to get them to explain things until you understand the essence at a foundational level - hopefully you understand what combination of the notions of statistical independence / power / dimensionality / algorithmic complexity has birthed novel system or algorithm they built. The process selects for people who have a) already built something substantial, and b) have the communication skills to explain it.

refuzed 11y ago

I did the challenge and it was a fun endeavor. I'm mainly a C# dev. I dabble in AngularJS at work but don't consider myself a pro. I'd never tried drawing to the canvas so this seemed like a good challenge. I managed to get something fairly workable, albeit ugly code-wise, banged out in 1hr. If you reviewed my google searches, you would see that: - I didn't know how to init a 2d array in javascript - I didn't know that the things on the canvas couldn't be accessed directly for click handlers - I cheated on the solution for finding neighbors because I was running out of time *edit formatting

bradlys 11y ago

> "Candidates are also reviewing a company. They'll be dedicating several years of their lives to this workplace and will be looking at the interview filter to see what it takes to get in." Really? I barely know anyone who works for several years at any place. I'm looking at whether I can tolerate it for six months. That's only so I can take a job search break for a few months before hitting the grind again. I'd love to work at a place that's so great that I'd be there for several years but that's hard to imagine. Most companies I've interviewed with don't exist in 3 years, let alone 'several' (7+).

greggyb 11y ago
This is a very small niche that you live in. I can tell you that a candidate with 7+ 6 month engagements would be unlikely to get a position at my current company (mid-sized business intelligence consultancy), and simply wouldn't be considered at my last company (old school enterprise environment). The startup scene is not representative of the job market for the majority of people.
- krisdol 11y ago
  >The startup scene is not representative of the job market for the majority of people. On that note, I'm surprised that startups would hire frequent-short-stint employees. The startup I work at has a great proportion of people who have stuck around since the early days; yet I have worked (and interviewed) at large companies where everyone bails within a couple of years max. I don't know what the West Coast "scene" is like, so my company probably doesn't resemble SV startups, but the pay is great, the people are smart and passionate, and the businesses is hitting all of its goals, so I'm not complaining.

gkop 11y ago

Do JavaScript experts consider JSBin a decent environment for this task? JavaScript is a bit verbose and I would resent simply the aspect of having to write a substantial amount of JavaScript without autocomplete. I just played with JSBin and it doesn't have autocomplete out of the box. Edit: whoa I just re-read the OP and found this > Most [candidates] tend to use the laptop & JSBin provided That's super hypocritical, OP (see your paragraph headed "Comfortable situation")! If you "provide" them with an environment of course most are going to use what you provide since that is what you are suggesting. So now you're filtering for people for whom that laptop model and the JSBin tool are familiar and comfortable. Or in the case of those that reject your environment and choose their own familiar and comfortable laptop and editor, you are filtering for those with the self-confidence to reject the suggestion of the interviewer, which doesn't really help with your stated goal. It's a shame because I like some of your other points :/

jarjoura 11y ago

I've been giving interviews for almost a decade now and I've both tried and seen many different approaches. Yet, I think the MOST important part of the 45-60 minute time slot I get with a candidate (or future coworker), is the conversation. 1) I want to see passion for solving problems in the space. There are endless problems to solve in the industry, but I want to know they'll be excited to work on my team's problems. 2) What are they doing here? Was this a numbers game (interview at a ton of different places in hopes of getting one good offer)? Were they recruited or did they actively seek this position out? I've seen candidates where in one interview I have to throw multiple problems at them, because they think about it for 30 seconds and then come up with a correct solution and quickly write it out on the board. I'll usually run out of questions for these candidates. Ultimately, white-board coding works well for some, and is a complete disaster for others. Yet I don't believe it means white-board interviews should be thrown away in an effort to be "fair." I just think as engineers, if we really want to land a position at a Google, Facebook, or Uber, etc, is it too much to ask that we study up on our algorithms?

tokenadult 11y ago

I wonder if the OP has ever read any actual research on effective hiring practices. I have a FAQ for that.[1] The short answer that research gives is to set up an actual work-sample test for the job in question. The longer answer is to add in a VALIDATED test of the worker's general cognitive ability. But if that kind of test isn't validated, the employer can be subject to legal consequences in the United States if the test has "adverse impact" on protected minority groups. Rather than just making up hiring procedures, companies ought to do research on what works for finding better workers and what is not legally risky for the company. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4613543 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4613543

enraged_camel 11y ago
I can confirm that this works incredibly well. At my previous job, my team was responsible for technical training. So our interview process involved having the interviewee give a 30-minute presentation and teach us (the interviewers) a technical topic. Everyone we hired ended up having stellar job performance.

acjohnson55 11y ago

As a counterpoint, I'm fairly confident it's possible to hire engineers without seeing the code anything at all. I'm not an expert, but I do know that I've never felt like a homework/sample code/whiteboard exercise I've done has borne any real resemblance to the work I do. I'm generally a fan of getting a candidate to tell me about aspects of their previous work that relate to the skills the job requires. I wrote this at my last job on the topic: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alanjohnson/were-hiring-engineers-all-wrong_b_7973484.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alanjohnson/were-hiring-engine...

Consultant32452 11y ago
I've never been required to provide a code sample for a job interview nor have I ever asked for one. I've had pretty good luck sussing out who knows what they're doing based on their ability to talk in detail about what work they've been doing.

grecy 11y ago

I'm a Software Engineer, have been passionate about computers my entire life, and I've never once played Minesweeper. I actually have no idea how.

ronilan 11y ago

So, like, my own personal experience... A couple of years ago I applied for a certain company that this year turned out to be a unicorn. The automated reply said to build a Minesweeper. So I did. It took a several hours to get into a shape that is playable. Then it took several days to polish it into app store quality. You can play here: http://www.ronilan.com/bugsweeper/ http://www.ronilan.com/bugsweeper/ Download here: http://www.appstore.com/bugsweepergame http://www.appstore.com/bugsweepergame And copy as much as you want from here: http://www.ronilan.com/bugsweeper/js/bugsweeper.js http://www.ronilan.com/bugsweeper/js/bugsweeper.js If you are wondering how it went from there, they were "evasive". Then I got a softball "center a div" interview with one of their front-ends. Then I got a polite no thanks from the recruiter. And that's all I have to say about it.

imh 11y ago
Automated response questions are so disrespectful. "We won't take the time to see if we're in any way interested, and won't unless you devote your own time."
- Paul_Dessert 11y ago
  Absolutely. I got one a couple of weeks ago. It asked me to design some API and other arbitrary garbage. Obviously an auto response. They also had the nerve to "cap" it at 10 hours. I won't even respond to these "companies" anymore. It's a waste of time.
- dvcrn 11y ago
  Even worse are automated responses from a no-reply emails like jobvite or friends. If I already took the time to interview with you, invested hours of my personal time into you, maybe even took a day off just so I can make your weird schedule, give me at least a personal answer or a chance to ask for questions. I love to learn new things and actually really want to learn about the mistakes I made. Giving me a "no thank you" from a noreply after all that time is like a big middle finger in the face.
NumberCruncher 11y ago
I like the game!

mixmastamyk 11y ago

Uggh, been interviewing this month and it has been mostly awful. From "who was your worst boss/what is your worst quality" to "solve this problem with us watching, clock ticking, and a $150k on the line." Also, the only profession (I know of) where twenty years experience is considered a detriment. Perhaps fashion modeling is another? ;)

geebee 11y ago
It's odd, isn't it? Twenty years of experience is considered good, but twenty extra years of age is considered bad. This actually goes a long way to explaining why interviews are such an odd experience - companies recruit for experience (must have launched successfully with experience scaling), and then testing for exam-ready knowledge of second year algorithms and data structures. I suppose another way to put it is that employers would like people with 20 years of experience who graduated from college last week.

koevet 11y ago

I have decided that I will no longer take technical interviews. I have 25 years of software development under my belt, I published a book, spoke at various conferences in Europe, have a Github profile (admittedly not very lively), worked for well-established enterprises and have great references. Why shall I still prove myself? If I was a senior lawyer or an architect joining a new studio, I strongly doubt I would have to go through an interview to test if I can use the drawing table or if I know the body of laws of my countries. It is just ridiculous. As I work as a freelance, my approach will be to offer 2 weeks of work on site for free. After the 2nd week, if they still think I'm good enough for the company, I will charge the 2 weeks, otherwise goodbye and no questions asked.

justjimmy 11y ago
Shouldn't that be the other way around? If it doesn't work out, charge the 2 weeks, if it does, you get a job?
- emerongi 11y ago
  If you go with the notion of "I don't need to prove myself, I'm good enough - look at what I've made", then this is exactly how it should be. Otherwise you're still proving yourself and providing 2 weeks of your highly valuable time for free. Those 2 weeks should determine whether it works out on other levels (e.g. are both parties comfortable with working each other) and if you do work in that time, you better charge for it.
dasboth 11y ago
That sounds like a sensible way to work as a freelancer. Have you already had success with it or is it just a plan for the future for now? I'd be interested in hearing how it pans/panned out.
- koevet 11y ago
  Well, yes and no. For around 3 years, I have been running my own consulting company with a friend. We were doing pretty much what I do as a 'solo' consultant, except that we were fronted by a company. This automatically removed the need for interviews. As soon as I sold my company and got back to solo consulting, I had to re-enter into this ridiculous circus which are technical interviews. So, to answer your question, I will apply this approach from 2016.

crazylila 11y ago

At the Beginning Be warm ask them how they are Listen Be considerate ssk if it’s still a good time Don't Be Too Familiar Use Appropriate Language Explain what is going to happen

s3nnyy 11y ago

I live in Switzerland and I used to code for a living. As an external, I hire engineers for different startups in Zurich. As I got deeper into IT-recruiting, I realised that candidate filtering at the top of the funnel is fundamentally broken. The market for software engineers is different from the market for - let's say - actors. Especially for senior developers there is way more demand than there is supply. This has the very important implication that as a company you can not annoy candidates too much. Asking for tedious homework, too many coding challenges or references might be already overkill. Good people do not really need to work for you; they can also work for Google Zürich (biggest engineering office outside the US), or other cool tech-companies / ETH-spinoffs. If you look for a tech-job in the most liveable city in the world, check out my story "8 reasons why I moved to Switzerland to work in IT" on https://medium.com/@iwaninzurich/eight-reasons-why-i-moved-to-switzerland-to-work-in-it-c7ac18af4f90 https://medium.com/@iwaninzurich/eight-reasons-why-i-moved-t... or send me a mail to the mail-address in my HN-profile.

madez 11y ago
Don’t get me wrong, but your comment reads like an ad.
- s3nnyy 11y ago
  I am definitely biased: Besides coding, I source, screen, and interview software engineers that want to move to Switzerland.
- rorykoehler 11y ago
  Native advertising ... in the comments.
  - s3nnyy 11y ago
    I sincerely believe that living and working in Switzerland is nicer than anywhere else in Europe. With my comments I raise awareness for my side-income but primarily I try adding value to HN discussions.

maindrive 11y ago

I somehow think that the interviewer should also be interviewed at the same time. If you have that kind of experience under your belt, one might definitely be interested in knowing if the person he/she would work under is really capable or not ? Working with/under someone lesser than you n same person is taking your interview, its kind of a insult to be honest.

Kurtz79 11y ago

"Finally, I assumed that most everyone played Minesweeper at one point and I wouldn't need to explain the rules."¨ I stopped making such assumptions since I started interviewing. Warming up question: "How would you check that two strings are the anagram of each other ?" "What's an anagram ?"