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Wow, you can buy some EPPS (the chemical in the article) here for £39.20? http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/product/sigma/54465?lang=en&region=GB http://www.

Wow, you can buy some EPPS (the chemical in the article) here for £39.20? http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/product/sigma/54465?lang=en&region=GB http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/product/sigma/54465?lang... Looks interesting research but I'm sure this stuff probably can't be that good for you!

toabi 11y ago
Shows 137.50€ here :D
- slight 11y ago
  143.50€ here... (Spain).
  - codecamper 11y ago
    158 euro here. (Morocco) maybe a pricing algorithm that increases price based on demand?
    - PythonicAlpha 11y ago
      Or based on the existence of positive research papers ;)
- deviarte 11y ago
  $175 here (Netherlands Antilles, Bonaire)
- twsted 11y ago
  Same (137.50€) from Italy
- odabaxok 11y ago
  4,265.99 CZK ~ 157.82 EUR (Czech Republic)
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
ridgeguy 11y ago
Don't have the paper in front of me, but IIRC, the test dose ranged from 10mg/kg to 100mg/kg. A branch of the study looked for adverse effects at 2000mg/kg and found none. That indicates a very large therapeutic margin. Of course it's in mice, not people....
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- termain 11y ago
  Edit: Ok, ok, I totally screwed that up. Damnit. Sorry, everyone. Grams aren't kilograms. The freaking base unit shouldn't have a prefix. 2000mg/kg = 2, right? Like 2kg of medicine for every one kg of body mass? That seems impossible to consume. Even 0.1 kg/kg seems really, really high. Or is mg here used for micrograms rather than milligrams? So it's actually 2000 μg/kg.
  - 4ad 11y ago
    > 2000mg/kg = 2, right? No, 2000mg/kg = 0.002 > Like 2kg of medicine for every one kg of body mass? No, 2g for every kg of body. And that's some safe limit, not therapeutic dose. > Or is mg here used for micrograms rather than milligrams? No, it's milligrams.
  - dsr_ 11y ago
    2g of drug per kilogram of body mass. That's not the therapeutic dose, that's the safety limit.
  - zeristor 11y ago
    2000 mg is 2g (a kg is 1000g, or 1 x 10^6mg) Have you worked on software for NASA Mars probes in the past?
    - termain 11y ago
      Err.... NASA software, yes. No Mars probes yet. Yeah, I know, I know.
wrong_internet 11y ago
Pretty sure Alzheimer's isn't good for you, either. I'd take any health risks over dementia, personally, and I'm sure most would, too. Looking forward to the FDA blocking this on "safety" grounds.
- carbocation 11y ago
  It's amazing to me that people are willing to experiment with an unapproved chemical that provides no proven benefit in humans, yet aren't willing to use human-proven therapies with known benefits such as statins.
  - leoedin 11y ago
    Presumably these "people" you speak of are actually different people (unless you have evidence of the parent choosing not to use statins?) People tend to vary wildly in choices and opinions. Who knew!?
    - phkahler 11y ago
      >> People tend to vary wildly in choices and opinions. Who knew!? But some people think their choice or opinion is somehow the "correct" one and should be imposed on everyone ;-)
  - RobertoG 11y ago
    Maybe they are not the same people?
  - Udik 11y ago
    Well, it's not for a sore knee. Is there anything more unapproved than an irreversible disease that destroys your mind in the space of a few years? It's not like cancer, from which you might be cured, or at least with which you can have a meaningful life until your eventual death. It is a slow motion process of erasure that is well on its way at the moment of the first diagnosis. Taking the wrong medicine could shorten your brain's life of how much, a year perhaps? Still worth trying.
Someone1234 11y ago
If you use this on someone else with Alzheimer's and they die or are injured, you will almost definitely go to jail. You could likely use it on yourself, but look at it as an extreme, it is still less bad than suicide I suppose... But you don't know what the side effects could be. It kind of scares me that people think they can buy untested chemicals online and self-medicate with them. But then again I'm not into the whole "Bath Salts" scene which is all about that.
- phil248 11y ago
  It kind of scares me that people with terminal or completely debilitating diseases don't have widespread access to whatever experimental treatments are available. Imagine watching yourself die and reading articles about promising treatments you are unable to obtain. That is scary.
  - Someone1234 11y ago
    There's a thin line between an experimental treatment with some potential merit being trialed on vulnerable people, and a mad scientist just trying things "to see what will happen." A lot of terminal people have, historically, had pretty terrible things done to them on the guise of "well they were going to die anyway!" I for one welcome medical and academic oversight of experimental treatments. Terminal people are especially in need of protection as they will grasp to any hope no matter how slim or misguided.
    - sparkzilla 11y ago
      If you haven't seen it already, I highly recommend The Knick, a show about a doctor in the early 1900s, directed by Steven Soderbergh. It deals with these kind of issues.
    - Lawtonfogle 11y ago
      The line is even thinner when it is some issue that impacts a persons ability to reason. An old person who is mentally all there can make an informed decision if they think the offered treatment is an actual attempt at a cure or some mad scientist's plaything, but someone with dementia is far less able to reason about such.
midnitewarrior 11y ago
In mice the curative dose was 20x smaller than anything that brought on toxicity. We can only hope people respond similarly.
jobu 11y ago
You would probably want some help administering it via intracerebroventricular injection. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19558257 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19558257)

toabi 11y ago

Shows 137.50€ here :D

slight 11y ago
143.50€ here... (Spain).
- codecamper 11y ago
  158 euro here. (Morocco) maybe a pricing algorithm that increases price based on demand?
  - PythonicAlpha 11y ago
    Or based on the existence of positive research papers ;)
deviarte 11y ago
$175 here (Netherlands Antilles, Bonaire)
twsted 11y ago
Same (137.50€) from Italy
odabaxok 11y ago
4,265.99 CZK ~ 157.82 EUR (Czech Republic)
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

ridgeguy 11y ago

Don't have the paper in front of me, but IIRC, the test dose ranged from 10mg/kg to 100mg/kg. A branch of the study looked for adverse effects at 2000mg/kg and found none. That indicates a very large therapeutic margin. Of course it's in mice, not people....

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
termain 11y ago
Edit: Ok, ok, I totally screwed that up. Damnit. Sorry, everyone. Grams aren't kilograms. The freaking base unit shouldn't have a prefix. 2000mg/kg = 2, right? Like 2kg of medicine for every one kg of body mass? That seems impossible to consume. Even 0.1 kg/kg seems really, really high. Or is mg here used for micrograms rather than milligrams? So it's actually 2000 μg/kg.
- 4ad 11y ago
  > 2000mg/kg = 2, right? No, 2000mg/kg = 0.002 > Like 2kg of medicine for every one kg of body mass? No, 2g for every kg of body. And that's some safe limit, not therapeutic dose. > Or is mg here used for micrograms rather than milligrams? No, it's milligrams.
- dsr_ 11y ago
  2g of drug per kilogram of body mass. That's not the therapeutic dose, that's the safety limit.
- zeristor 11y ago
  2000 mg is 2g (a kg is 1000g, or 1 x 10^6mg) Have you worked on software for NASA Mars probes in the past?
  - termain 11y ago
    Err.... NASA software, yes. No Mars probes yet. Yeah, I know, I know.

wrong_internet 11y ago

Pretty sure Alzheimer's isn't good for you, either. I'd take any health risks over dementia, personally, and I'm sure most would, too. Looking forward to the FDA blocking this on "safety" grounds.

carbocation 11y ago
It's amazing to me that people are willing to experiment with an unapproved chemical that provides no proven benefit in humans, yet aren't willing to use human-proven therapies with known benefits such as statins.
- leoedin 11y ago
  Presumably these "people" you speak of are actually different people (unless you have evidence of the parent choosing not to use statins?) People tend to vary wildly in choices and opinions. Who knew!?
  - phkahler 11y ago
    >> People tend to vary wildly in choices and opinions. Who knew!? But some people think their choice or opinion is somehow the "correct" one and should be imposed on everyone ;-)
- RobertoG 11y ago
  Maybe they are not the same people?
- Udik 11y ago
  Well, it's not for a sore knee. Is there anything more unapproved than an irreversible disease that destroys your mind in the space of a few years? It's not like cancer, from which you might be cured, or at least with which you can have a meaningful life until your eventual death. It is a slow motion process of erasure that is well on its way at the moment of the first diagnosis. Taking the wrong medicine could shorten your brain's life of how much, a year perhaps? Still worth trying.

Someone1234 11y ago

If you use this on someone else with Alzheimer's and they die or are injured, you will almost definitely go to jail. You could likely use it on yourself, but look at it as an extreme, it is still less bad than suicide I suppose... But you don't know what the side effects could be. It kind of scares me that people think they can buy untested chemicals online and self-medicate with them. But then again I'm not into the whole "Bath Salts" scene which is all about that.

phil248 11y ago
It kind of scares me that people with terminal or completely debilitating diseases don't have widespread access to whatever experimental treatments are available. Imagine watching yourself die and reading articles about promising treatments you are unable to obtain. That is scary.
- Someone1234 11y ago
  There's a thin line between an experimental treatment with some potential merit being trialed on vulnerable people, and a mad scientist just trying things "to see what will happen." A lot of terminal people have, historically, had pretty terrible things done to them on the guise of "well they were going to die anyway!" I for one welcome medical and academic oversight of experimental treatments. Terminal people are especially in need of protection as they will grasp to any hope no matter how slim or misguided.
  - sparkzilla 11y ago
    If you haven't seen it already, I highly recommend The Knick, a show about a doctor in the early 1900s, directed by Steven Soderbergh. It deals with these kind of issues.
  - Lawtonfogle 11y ago
    The line is even thinner when it is some issue that impacts a persons ability to reason. An old person who is mentally all there can make an informed decision if they think the offered treatment is an actual attempt at a cure or some mad scientist's plaything, but someone with dementia is far less able to reason about such.

midnitewarrior 11y ago

In mice the curative dose was 20x smaller than anything that brought on toxicity. We can only hope people respond similarly.

jobu 11y ago

You would probably want some help administering it via intracerebroventricular injection. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19558257 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19558257)