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This is the most famous big attempt for visual approach up to now (first time standardized 1997), and the recent (2013) results are: http://oro.open.ac.uk/3580

by acqq 11y ago

This is the most famous big attempt for visual approach up to now (first time standardized 1997), and the recent (2013) results are: http://oro.open.ac.uk/35805/8/UML%20in%20practice%208.pdf http://oro.open.ac.uk/35805/8/UML%20in%20practice%208.pdf "Even if UML is viewed as the ‘de facto’ standard, it is by no means universally adopted. The majority of those interviewed simply do not use UML, and those who do use it tend to do so selectively and often informally." "They also highlight some of the fundamental tensions within UML, resonating with arguments [8], [25], [17] that UML’s intended strengths (i.e., generality, accommodating different levels of abstraction) are intimately associated with its observed weaknesses (e.g., latent complexity, issues of transformation and coordination between views) and arise from fundamental properties of UML (e.g. lack of formal semantics, separation of expressions of structure and behavior)." Whatever we do next, we have a nice set of examples and case studies of "what can go wrong." The specific software tools based on UML are especially good examples of the problems.

rl3 11y ago
While I'm not terribly familiar with UML, I was under the impression that it's primarily a modeling language, not necessarily a visual programming implement. As far as I'm aware, most visual programming today is actually implemented in the form of node-based editors, which gained popularity in the film and visual effects industries well over a decade ago. The best modern examples I can think of are probably Nuke[0] and UE4's Blueprint[1] system. [0] https://www.thefoundry.co.uk/products/nuke/ https://www.thefoundry.co.uk/products/nuke/ [1] https://docs.unrealengine.com/latest/INT/Engine/Blueprints/Editor/index.html https://docs.unrealengine.com/latest/INT/Engine/Blueprints/E...
- acqq 11y ago
  I've tried this, some two decades ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rational_Software https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rational_Software "The development of Rose 2.0 combined a Windows-based Booch notation editor called Object System Designer (acquired from Wisconsin-based Palladio) with a new intermediate representation, and with new semantic analysis, code generation, and reverse engineering capabilities. The latter, which allowed prospective customers to analyze existing C++ code to produce "as-built" navigable class diagrams, helped overcome Rational's late re-entry into the market for object-oriented modeling tools. Rose 2.0 ran on Windows PCs and on several Unix-based workstations." It wasn't usable, except to be used in the projects doomed to fail. Or spend a lot of money. Which is something a goal of the managers. But it still can't be named a success.
  - luisobo 11y ago
    Author here. Thanks for the discussion. UML didn't pick up for whatever reason and visual programming fell into the valley of deception. I expect that with more UI/UX research we can get to the plateau of productivity in the next decade. Btw, there is a variant of UML that is executable. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executable_UML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executable_UML
    - acqq 11y ago
      > there is a variant of UML that is executable. If you believe it's a good way, you should certainly go that way. Please write about your experiences afterwards. Rose 2.0, I've mentioned and quoted explicitly, produced the code from the diagrams (that's the "code generation" from the quote). And it was tragedy. Maybe you find somebody's experiences on the web.
      - arethuza 11y ago
        "And it was tragedy." That sounds quite positive compared to my experiences with code generated from UML.
    - dikeert 11y ago
      Wrong. Here is a thing, soviet spaceship Buran, which was performing fully automated landing in 1991, was programmed with this stuff - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRAKON https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRAKON. Teams of software engineers created this language so rocker scientists would be able to programm spaceship without software developers.

by acqq 11y ago

rl3 11y ago

While I'm not terribly familiar with UML, I was under the impression that it's primarily a modeling language, not necessarily a visual programming implement. As far as I'm aware, most visual programming today is actually implemented in the form of node-based editors, which gained popularity in the film and visual effects industries well over a decade ago. The best modern examples I can think of are probably Nuke[0] and UE4's Blueprint[1] system. [0] https://www.thefoundry.co.uk/products/nuke/ https://www.thefoundry.co.uk/products/nuke/ [1] https://docs.unrealengine.com/latest/INT/Engine/Blueprints/Editor/index.html https://docs.unrealengine.com/latest/INT/Engine/Blueprints/E...

acqq 11y ago
I've tried this, some two decades ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rational_Software https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rational_Software "The development of Rose 2.0 combined a Windows-based Booch notation editor called Object System Designer (acquired from Wisconsin-based Palladio) with a new intermediate representation, and with new semantic analysis, code generation, and reverse engineering capabilities. The latter, which allowed prospective customers to analyze existing C++ code to produce "as-built" navigable class diagrams, helped overcome Rational's late re-entry into the market for object-oriented modeling tools. Rose 2.0 ran on Windows PCs and on several Unix-based workstations." It wasn't usable, except to be used in the projects doomed to fail. Or spend a lot of money. Which is something a goal of the managers. But it still can't be named a success.
- luisobo 11y ago
  Author here. Thanks for the discussion. UML didn't pick up for whatever reason and visual programming fell into the valley of deception. I expect that with more UI/UX research we can get to the plateau of productivity in the next decade. Btw, there is a variant of UML that is executable. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executable_UML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executable_UML
  - acqq 11y ago
    > there is a variant of UML that is executable. If you believe it's a good way, you should certainly go that way. Please write about your experiences afterwards. Rose 2.0, I've mentioned and quoted explicitly, produced the code from the diagrams (that's the "code generation" from the quote). And it was tragedy. Maybe you find somebody's experiences on the web.
    - arethuza 11y ago
      "And it was tragedy." That sounds quite positive compared to my experiences with code generated from UML.
  - dikeert 11y ago
    Wrong. Here is a thing, soviet spaceship Buran, which was performing fully automated landing in 1991, was programmed with this stuff - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRAKON https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRAKON. Teams of software engineers created this language so rocker scientists would be able to programm spaceship without software developers.