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Well the problem with the growth mindset is that ultimately you die, so your growth does a nosedive eventually. If something excites or intrigues you, then do

by xyzzy4 11y ago

Well the problem with the growth mindset is that ultimately you die, so your growth does a nosedive eventually. If something excites or intrigues you, then do it. But don't delude yourself that your personal growth really matters.

nostrademons 11y ago
That's sorta the ultimate in fixed mindsets, right? That eventually we'll all be dead, and so none of it matters. It's true, but also irrelevant. Focus on what you can do & experience while you're alive, because who cares what happens once we're dead? The scale of granularity that you use to look at life is as arbitrary as the emotional tenor of it, so why not focus in on a timescale that'll actually be interesting?
- xyzzy4 11y ago
  Well what makes growing more interesting than not growing?
  - Profan 11y ago
    Surely the opportunity to experience more is more interesting than the one which has you firmly planted where you are?
    - xyzzy4 11y ago
      I guess so but as a human you will naturally seek new experiences. I don't see why you need to adopt a growth mindset to try to expedite what already happens. Even if a growth mindset leads you to double the amount of experiences, on a logarithmic scale that is inconsequential.
      - meric 11y ago
        I agree, a "grow mindset" cannot be coerced. You can't believe you can grow when you really believe you are fixed. Perhaps all you can do is add "at this point in time" at the end of all your sentences, and hope for the best. I’m one of the people who’s not good at math at this point in time.
    - x3n0ph3n3 11y ago
      The alternative is the pursuit of pleasure, because why not enjoy it rather than suffer if you're just going to die?
    - icanhackit 11y ago
      to experience more is more interesting It depends. In some ways by choosing what NOT to do, you are choosing what to do and have more time, effort and money to invest in them as a result of being conservative with your resources. Perhaps the Exclusionist Mindset?
      - Profan 11y ago
        Sure, you'll have to exclude things by necessity, but what I was getting at was rather the not doing things because one believes it is actually impossible, while still actually wanting to do that thing for some reason (desire).
  - dang 11y ago
    It replaces suffering with relief.
- aianus 11y ago
  > experience while you're alive, because who cares what happens once we're dead? > so why not focus in on a timescale that'll actually be interesting? By that logic, it would follow that you should spend all of your money on hookers and blow tonight and shoot yourself come morning. Then the rest of your life will be 100% interesting and enjoyable and the part afterwards is irrelevant. Edit: I mean the general 'you' not the personal 'you'. Just pointing out that happy growth-minded people don't really believe those quotes or they would live very differently.
  - nostrademons 11y ago
    "Happy" in this context means satisfied over time, not instantaneously ecstatic. Think of it as the integral of happiness over lifespan. Few people care about how happy they'll be when they're dead; that seems like optimizing for something pointless. Similarly, few people want to be really happy and then be dead the next instant. Think of Jeff Bezos's regret minimization framework. You want to be able look back on your life from some point many years in the future and say "I lived it the best way that I could". You don't want to look back on your life on your deathbed and think "Man, my whole life, I knew that this day would come and render it all pointless, and now I've proved myself right!" Nor do you want to look back on your life tomorrow and think "Oh shit, this is it!"
    - cJ0th 11y ago
      > You want to be able look back on your life from some point many years in the future and say "I lived it the best way that I could". You don't want to look back on your life on your deathbed and think "Man, my whole life, I knew that this day would come and render it all pointless, and now I've proved myself right!" I don't see how these statements are mutually exclusive.
    - aianus 11y ago
      > Few people care about how happy they'll be when they're dead; that seems like optimizing for something pointless. > You don't want to look back on your life on your deathbed and think... These statements are rather contradictory. On one hand you acknowledge that my happiness upon death is irrelevant, on the other I'm supposed to care about my life retrospective moments before death.
pcmaffey 11y ago
Unless you die a meaningful death, like the heroes of yore. Use your life and death to inspire others, and your "honor" will live on. But if you live only for yourself, then of course, you won't matter after you die.
- xyzzy4 11y ago
  But on a long enough timeline, everything you do is pointless. Eventually the universe will be destroyed by entropy.
  - Kluny 11y ago
    Damn, did you forget to eat your cornflakes this morning? Yes, everything is pointless and we'll eventually burn in the sun. But on the other hand, maybe that's not true. If we live as if there is a point, life will be more fun and more interesting, and that's good enough for me.
    - aianus 11y ago
      > If we live as if there is a point, life will be more fun and more interesting, and that's good enough for me. How do you trick yourself into believing there is a point to life when you believe there is none and all the evidence, to you, appears to support it?
      - nostrademons 11y ago
        Reframe the question: how do you trick yourself into believing anything when you realize that "belief" is just the random firing of neurons? I went through a similar existential crisis in high school when I became aware of the laws of physics, of thermodynamics, and of cosmology. After all, if we are all just random interactions of sub-atomic particles fated to intertwine in a certain way and then eventually disappear in the heat-death of the universe, what's the point of anything? And then I turned that logic back on my own thought patterns, which are after all just random firings of neurons that happen to form patterns which the random firings of other neurons interpret as "me". Certain patterns lead to ennui, hopelessness, and the eventual suicide of the organism through chronic depression. Other patterns gratify the other circuits in the brain, leading to a life that would subjectively be described as happy and fulfilling. I might not actually have a choice in the matter - after all, it's possible that the paths we follow through life were all pre-ordained at the birth of the universe. But I also know that the question is meaningless, because as we established before, there is no actual "I", only random firings of neurons with electrical impulses that happen to make up a pattern that I perceive as "my thoughts". So given the inherent contradiction in my existence - why not choose the belief system that continues to ensure I have a happy existence? tl;dr: Prove that you don't exist. Then you can do anything and believe anything you want.

by xyzzy4 11y ago

nostrademons 11y ago

That's sorta the ultimate in fixed mindsets, right? That eventually we'll all be dead, and so none of it matters. It's true, but also irrelevant. Focus on what you can do & experience while you're alive, because who cares what happens once we're dead? The scale of granularity that you use to look at life is as arbitrary as the emotional tenor of it, so why not focus in on a timescale that'll actually be interesting?

xyzzy4 11y ago
Well what makes growing more interesting than not growing?
- Profan 11y ago
  Surely the opportunity to experience more is more interesting than the one which has you firmly planted where you are?
  - xyzzy4 11y ago
    I guess so but as a human you will naturally seek new experiences. I don't see why you need to adopt a growth mindset to try to expedite what already happens. Even if a growth mindset leads you to double the amount of experiences, on a logarithmic scale that is inconsequential.
    - meric 11y ago
      I agree, a "grow mindset" cannot be coerced. You can't believe you can grow when you really believe you are fixed. Perhaps all you can do is add "at this point in time" at the end of all your sentences, and hope for the best. I’m one of the people who’s not good at math at this point in time.
  - x3n0ph3n3 11y ago
    The alternative is the pursuit of pleasure, because why not enjoy it rather than suffer if you're just going to die?
  - icanhackit 11y ago
    to experience more is more interesting It depends. In some ways by choosing what NOT to do, you are choosing what to do and have more time, effort and money to invest in them as a result of being conservative with your resources. Perhaps the Exclusionist Mindset?
    - Profan 11y ago
      Sure, you'll have to exclude things by necessity, but what I was getting at was rather the not doing things because one believes it is actually impossible, while still actually wanting to do that thing for some reason (desire).
- dang 11y ago
  It replaces suffering with relief.
aianus 11y ago
> experience while you're alive, because who cares what happens once we're dead? > so why not focus in on a timescale that'll actually be interesting? By that logic, it would follow that you should spend all of your money on hookers and blow tonight and shoot yourself come morning. Then the rest of your life will be 100% interesting and enjoyable and the part afterwards is irrelevant. Edit: I mean the general 'you' not the personal 'you'. Just pointing out that happy growth-minded people don't really believe those quotes or they would live very differently.
- nostrademons 11y ago
  "Happy" in this context means satisfied over time, not instantaneously ecstatic. Think of it as the integral of happiness over lifespan. Few people care about how happy they'll be when they're dead; that seems like optimizing for something pointless. Similarly, few people want to be really happy and then be dead the next instant. Think of Jeff Bezos's regret minimization framework. You want to be able look back on your life from some point many years in the future and say "I lived it the best way that I could". You don't want to look back on your life on your deathbed and think "Man, my whole life, I knew that this day would come and render it all pointless, and now I've proved myself right!" Nor do you want to look back on your life tomorrow and think "Oh shit, this is it!"
  - cJ0th 11y ago
    > You want to be able look back on your life from some point many years in the future and say "I lived it the best way that I could". You don't want to look back on your life on your deathbed and think "Man, my whole life, I knew that this day would come and render it all pointless, and now I've proved myself right!" I don't see how these statements are mutually exclusive.
  - aianus 11y ago
    > Few people care about how happy they'll be when they're dead; that seems like optimizing for something pointless. > You don't want to look back on your life on your deathbed and think... These statements are rather contradictory. On one hand you acknowledge that my happiness upon death is irrelevant, on the other I'm supposed to care about my life retrospective moments before death.

pcmaffey 11y ago

Unless you die a meaningful death, like the heroes of yore. Use your life and death to inspire others, and your "honor" will live on. But if you live only for yourself, then of course, you won't matter after you die.

xyzzy4 11y ago
But on a long enough timeline, everything you do is pointless. Eventually the universe will be destroyed by entropy.
- Kluny 11y ago
  Damn, did you forget to eat your cornflakes this morning? Yes, everything is pointless and we'll eventually burn in the sun. But on the other hand, maybe that's not true. If we live as if there is a point, life will be more fun and more interesting, and that's good enough for me.
  - aianus 11y ago
    > If we live as if there is a point, life will be more fun and more interesting, and that's good enough for me. How do you trick yourself into believing there is a point to life when you believe there is none and all the evidence, to you, appears to support it?
    - nostrademons 11y ago
      Reframe the question: how do you trick yourself into believing anything when you realize that "belief" is just the random firing of neurons? I went through a similar existential crisis in high school when I became aware of the laws of physics, of thermodynamics, and of cosmology. After all, if we are all just random interactions of sub-atomic particles fated to intertwine in a certain way and then eventually disappear in the heat-death of the universe, what's the point of anything? And then I turned that logic back on my own thought patterns, which are after all just random firings of neurons that happen to form patterns which the random firings of other neurons interpret as "me". Certain patterns lead to ennui, hopelessness, and the eventual suicide of the organism through chronic depression. Other patterns gratify the other circuits in the brain, leading to a life that would subjectively be described as happy and fulfilling. I might not actually have a choice in the matter - after all, it's possible that the paths we follow through life were all pre-ordained at the birth of the universe. But I also know that the question is meaningless, because as we established before, there is no actual "I", only random firings of neurons with electrical impulses that happen to make up a pattern that I perceive as "my thoughts". So given the inherent contradiction in my existence - why not choose the belief system that continues to ensure I have a happy existence? tl;dr: Prove that you don't exist. Then you can do anything and believe anything you want.