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Ironically most of the "out of touch" high achievers have just managed to avoid the misfortune of having to waste moments of their life in menial servitude to s

Ironically most of the "out of touch" high achievers have just managed to avoid the misfortune of having to waste moments of their life in menial servitude to some big corporation in exchange for a disgracefully low wage. The experience is dehumanizing, and I have a hard time buying into the idea that having that experience benefits all but the least empathetic people. One is likely to come out of such a mechanized experience 1) never wanting to eat the food there again, 2) having committed theft or graft by giving freebies to friends and acquaintances, or 3) feeling like an insignificant cog. Much of success has to do with believing you are right in spite of others' doubts, and seeing the world in a novel way. In my opinion, oppressive institutional environments crush those aspects of people... Poverty and financial desperation crushes them too. Both force a kind of mental toil and constant stress. So I'd advise a young person to perhaps find a way to do a job like that for about a week to gain that empathy and then never look back. The soul is enriched by addressing high quality problems, not low quality ones like someone in a hurry who wants french fries that need to be carried from the machine to the drive-up window.

tracker1 11y ago
I partly agree... There are plenty of service oriented jobs where you interact with a lot of people that are at least a little better than working at McDonald's (which I did three times when I was young). I've also worked in HelpDesk, Call Center Support, general IT, etc. I know people that have worked as Servers, Cashiers and a lot of similar roles. There's nothing wrong with it, though if you're well into your twenties without a plan to do better, and are unhappy where you are... should probably start re-thinking or adjust your attitude. Having done the job, there are times where I do empathize, and times that I don't. It's all relative. One of the reasons I like software development so much, is you gain so much variety in terms of domain knowledge that one wouldn't ever get otherwise. On the flip side, I don't think I could handle conversations with over a dozen people a day, on a regular basis, ever again.
jheriko 11y ago
have you worked such jobs yourself? i'd guess not from the tone and content... ... there is a lot of value in learning to be common. you might also come out of such experiences with 4) an understanding of day-to-day terms that prevent you from giving away your origins in conversation, 5) good friends who will bring joy to your life long after you leave the job, 6) understanding the benefits of speaking up at the right time in an oppressive environment, 7) understanding how privileged people with desk jobs are etc. etc...
- grandalf 11y ago
  Those are valid points. There is a lot to learn from any job, I think it's just a question of how quickly you learn those things and start to stagnate... Stagnation happens in any job, and becoming friends with coworkers also can happen in any job.
robhunter 11y ago
It feels to me like you're confusing sympathy and empathy. I would suggest that gaining true empathy - developing relationships and building friendships with co-workers - that can't happen in just a week. It's not about understanding how to carry french fries to the window - it's about understanding how a gigantic portion of the country experiences day-to-day life.
- grandalf 11y ago
  It may take longer than a week, and I do think it's important to learn, but I think that a reasonably open minded person will be able to learn it over time and does not have to do the work for long to start to develop understanding.
chrismcb 11y ago
Why do you think earning a wage is dehumanizing? Not only are you insulting them but then you accuse them off most likely being theives.
- grandalf 11y ago
  I'm not insulting them. It's the culture of low end work. These are the kinds of stories you hear when talking to friends who work in those kinds of places: - a guy who goes into the freezer room and eats/steals about $50 worth of jumbo shrimp every day. - the guy who always picks up dropped food off the floor and proceeds to cook/serve it. - the male manager who hits on new female hires and who has had a sexual relationship with 80% of the female staff. - the phlegm served to a rude customer. - boasts about how much free food was given away to various friends and acquaintances, and about how stupid the management is for not catching on. - most telling is the absolute refusal to ever eat the food from the establishment again. This is the culture of many low end food service places. If you work there you are entering that world and it will be socially awkward to disapprove of the behavior or to rat someone out. Thus there is pressure to accept the behavior as normal/reasonable and over time this increases the chances that an employee will participate in it him/herself. There is also a big difference between working in such a restaurant in a wealthy suburb vs doing it in a lower middle class town.

tracker1 11y ago

I partly agree... There are plenty of service oriented jobs where you interact with a lot of people that are at least a little better than working at McDonald's (which I did three times when I was young). I've also worked in HelpDesk, Call Center Support, general IT, etc. I know people that have worked as Servers, Cashiers and a lot of similar roles. There's nothing wrong with it, though if you're well into your twenties without a plan to do better, and are unhappy where you are... should probably start re-thinking or adjust your attitude. Having done the job, there are times where I do empathize, and times that I don't. It's all relative. One of the reasons I like software development so much, is you gain so much variety in terms of domain knowledge that one wouldn't ever get otherwise. On the flip side, I don't think I could handle conversations with over a dozen people a day, on a regular basis, ever again.

jheriko 11y ago

have you worked such jobs yourself? i'd guess not from the tone and content... ... there is a lot of value in learning to be common. you might also come out of such experiences with 4) an understanding of day-to-day terms that prevent you from giving away your origins in conversation, 5) good friends who will bring joy to your life long after you leave the job, 6) understanding the benefits of speaking up at the right time in an oppressive environment, 7) understanding how privileged people with desk jobs are etc. etc...

grandalf 11y ago
Those are valid points. There is a lot to learn from any job, I think it's just a question of how quickly you learn those things and start to stagnate... Stagnation happens in any job, and becoming friends with coworkers also can happen in any job.

robhunter 11y ago

It feels to me like you're confusing sympathy and empathy. I would suggest that gaining true empathy - developing relationships and building friendships with co-workers - that can't happen in just a week. It's not about understanding how to carry french fries to the window - it's about understanding how a gigantic portion of the country experiences day-to-day life.

grandalf 11y ago
It may take longer than a week, and I do think it's important to learn, but I think that a reasonably open minded person will be able to learn it over time and does not have to do the work for long to start to develop understanding.

chrismcb 11y ago

Why do you think earning a wage is dehumanizing? Not only are you insulting them but then you accuse them off most likely being theives.

grandalf 11y ago
I'm not insulting them. It's the culture of low end work. These are the kinds of stories you hear when talking to friends who work in those kinds of places: - a guy who goes into the freezer room and eats/steals about $50 worth of jumbo shrimp every day. - the guy who always picks up dropped food off the floor and proceeds to cook/serve it. - the male manager who hits on new female hires and who has had a sexual relationship with 80% of the female staff. - the phlegm served to a rude customer. - boasts about how much free food was given away to various friends and acquaintances, and about how stupid the management is for not catching on. - most telling is the absolute refusal to ever eat the food from the establishment again. This is the culture of many low end food service places. If you work there you are entering that world and it will be socially awkward to disapprove of the behavior or to rat someone out. Thus there is pressure to accept the behavior as normal/reasonable and over time this increases the chances that an employee will participate in it him/herself. There is also a big difference between working in such a restaurant in a wealthy suburb vs doing it in a lower middle class town.