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I really hope that the next generation of companies founded and run by people who grew up being on the other side will refrain from making this kind of decision

I really hope that the next generation of companies founded and run by people who grew up being on the other side will refrain from making this kind of decisions.

genericone 11y ago
Straight from the link: I don't have an existing Google account and I don't want to sign up for Gmail, Google+, or any other Google services. What should I do? It is easy to create a Google account for any existing email address without tying it to any Google services. It will only be used for identification and login. You can sign up for this "slimmed down" Google account here. You can also create this type of Google account via the existing migration flow on firebase.com.
geofft 11y ago
Why do you object to this decision? If I'm building a service that needs an account system with 2FA, detection of automated attacks, and some decent amount of internal security, I am surely not going to build it myself. It is just like rolling my own crypto in all the wrong ways. There are a couple of providers that will do this for me, for free: Google, Facebook, Twitter, Amazon, and GitHub come to mind. Each has some tradeoffs of public perception, losing audience members who refuse to have an X account, etc., but it's mostly a tossup. For a technical service like this I might have gone with GitHub, but if they're owned by Google, having only Google logins seems like the right choice. (Among other things, you already have a Google account in a sense when using Firebase, it's just run by a separate team at Google.) Sandstorm, a project that encourages you to self-host all your web services, came to the same conclusion: https://github.com/sandstorm-io/sandstorm/issues/150#issuecomment-62084752 https://github.com/sandstorm-io/sandstorm/issues/150#issueco... Is there a better third-party alternative here, or a way to do this securely and easily yourself that I'm missing?
- sbashyal 11y ago
  I already have a Firebase account setup with my work email address. So you are implying that having a Google account is required for 2FA?
- kentonv 11y ago
  To be fair, that issue is really old and Sandstorm now supports other forms of login. :)
- ryanobjc 11y ago
  This announcement is about the developer login, not the user login. Firebase apps can keep on logging users in via github, facebook, many others, and yes also google. It's up to the firebase dev to config that.
- stephenr 11y ago
  There are numerous existing authentication and authorisation layers/tools available that already support things like rate limiting, locking on X failed attempts, etc. There are also numerous existing open source TOTP/HOTP 2FA systems. Yes, you will likely need to do a little work to make things work together - but you are a software developer. Using these existing systems is not like rolling your own crypto, it's like building your app on top of an open source crypto library.
Sanddancer 11y ago
Why should a company use a disparate number of login systems for their various products? Having a login system for each and every product is a huge liability, as you then have to either roll out code amongst several different systems, or you have to continuously audit several different codebases, all of which function in the same exact way.

I really hope that the next generation of companies founded and run by people who grew up being on the other side will refrain from making this kind of decisions.

genericone 11y ago

Straight from the link: I don't have an existing Google account and I don't want to sign up for Gmail, Google+, or any other Google services. What should I do? It is easy to create a Google account for any existing email address without tying it to any Google services. It will only be used for identification and login. You can sign up for this "slimmed down" Google account here. You can also create this type of Google account via the existing migration flow on firebase.com.

geofft 11y ago

Why do you object to this decision? If I'm building a service that needs an account system with 2FA, detection of automated attacks, and some decent amount of internal security, I am surely not going to build it myself. It is just like rolling my own crypto in all the wrong ways. There are a couple of providers that will do this for me, for free: Google, Facebook, Twitter, Amazon, and GitHub come to mind. Each has some tradeoffs of public perception, losing audience members who refuse to have an X account, etc., but it's mostly a tossup. For a technical service like this I might have gone with GitHub, but if they're owned by Google, having only Google logins seems like the right choice. (Among other things, you already have a Google account in a sense when using Firebase, it's just run by a separate team at Google.) Sandstorm, a project that encourages you to self-host all your web services, came to the same conclusion: https://github.com/sandstorm-io/sandstorm/issues/150#issuecomment-62084752 https://github.com/sandstorm-io/sandstorm/issues/150#issueco... Is there a better third-party alternative here, or a way to do this securely and easily yourself that I'm missing?

sbashyal 11y ago
I already have a Firebase account setup with my work email address. So you are implying that having a Google account is required for 2FA?
kentonv 11y ago
To be fair, that issue is really old and Sandstorm now supports other forms of login. :)
ryanobjc 11y ago
This announcement is about the developer login, not the user login. Firebase apps can keep on logging users in via github, facebook, many others, and yes also google. It's up to the firebase dev to config that.
stephenr 11y ago
There are numerous existing authentication and authorisation layers/tools available that already support things like rate limiting, locking on X failed attempts, etc. There are also numerous existing open source TOTP/HOTP 2FA systems. Yes, you will likely need to do a little work to make things work together - but you are a software developer. Using these existing systems is not like rolling your own crypto, it's like building your app on top of an open source crypto library.

Sanddancer 11y ago

Why should a company use a disparate number of login systems for their various products? Having a login system for each and every product is a huge liability, as you then have to either roll out code amongst several different systems, or you have to continuously audit several different codebases, all of which function in the same exact way.