4 ms·

> Instead of Qt, Gtk, and all the others, Windows just has Win32 No, Windows has Qt, Gtk and all the others, too. Virtually any regular user Windows install h

by sho_hn 11y ago

> Instead of Qt, Gtk, and all the others, Windows just has Win32 No, Windows has Qt, Gtk and all the others, too. Virtually any regular user Windows install has 2-5 Qt apps on it. And Windows has been infamous for apps reinventing standard UI elements with skinned monstrosities.

donatj 11y ago
It's been about 5 years since I was a regular Windows user, but I can't think of a single Qt app I used on a regular basis. Care to name some examples?
- JonathonW 11y ago
  I am a regular Windows user (split between OSX and Windows, actually, but Windows gets used on a daily basis) and I can't think of a single Qt app I use on a regular basis now. Actually, with my current workflow, I can't think of a Qt or GTK app that I use on a regular basis on either platform. I guess Wireshark's Qt and it gets used occasionally. But most of the cross-platform Qt and GTK stuff I used to install (Pidgin and GIMP immediately come to mind) I haven't even installed on a machine in ages. I've moved to native alternatives for a lot of the stuff I run, and what cross-platform applications I do run (Chrome, Sublime, etc.) tend to implement UIs with the native toolkit, since that's a much better experience on non-Linux platforms.
  - laumars 11y ago
    Chrome uses Aura (http://dev.chromium.org/developers/design-documents/aura http://dev.chromium.org/developers/design-documents/aura) I'd also argue that Qt applications are still "native" in that they run as a native EXE (or ELF on nix). Granted they don't use Win32 APIs, but then calling them non-native because of that is a little like calling Windows OpenGL games non-native because they don't use Direct3D. But that's an aside point. On the whole, I don't think it makes sense to categorise Windows desktop applications by what toolkit they use. MS Office 2003 didn't use Win32 toolbars. Office 2007 then introduced the ribbon bar, which changed in appearance in every subsequent release of MS Office. And even within MS Office, Microsoft doesn't always follow the same design patterns (Office 2007 used ribbon in Word and Excel but not in Outlook). Even outside of MS Office, some Windows applications in WinXP used different menu bars to the ones provided by the Win32 APIs (you can see by looking at whether menu items go 3D or just highlight when you hover over them). One example was the difference between Windows Explorer and Notepad. Plus often older Windows utilities go completely unaltered for years, eg the add font dialog box in XP was still using Windows 3.1 APIs: http://apagreekkeys.org/images/addFont1.jpg http://apagreekkeys.org/images/addFont1.jpg ....and this is all without discussing the disruption Metro has caused. I will grant you that in spite of these criticisms, Windows still fairs better than Linux in terms of uniformity. But it's certainly not consistent enough to define anything that doesn't use Win32 widgets as non-native.
- cozzyd 11y ago
  Skype might be the most popular.
  - Qerub 11y ago
    Last time I checked Skype only used Qt on Linux.
  - pjmlp 11y ago
    Skype was written in Delphi originally.
- sho_hn 11y ago
  EA's Origin and TeamSpeak (-> most PC gamers), VLC (-> most young tech-savvy media consumers), various device bundled software like the stuff that comes with TomTom GPS, the LightScribe control panel, ... it just accumulates. Germany's official tax app is Qt so that's a whole country right there. Many HN users might use VirtualBox which is Qt. The new Radeon Control Panel is Qt, too, so anyone who buys an AMD graphics card and installs the drivers. Many slightly geeky users use qBitorrent ever since uTorrent turned bad. Lots of one-off mini apps such as game launchers and settings apps are often Qt. And lots of weird random stuff people use for specific interests ... knitting pattern software, kids edutainment apps, language course CD apps, scientific citation managers, IRC clients and other messengers (Telegram desktop is Qt), ... This is before you get into pro apps like Mathematica or Maya (and half of Autodesk's other apps and Nuke and so on). Or not-pro but widely used and semigeeky stuff like Avidemux. Or Valve's video making tool for Source engine video games like TF2 used by game YouTubers and esports people. Qt is a pretty common way to write GUI apps for Windows. Just go to any regularly used Windows PC with a 20-something user and I almost guarantee you will find a few qtcore DLLs.
  - coldtea 11y ago
    Common is an exaggeration. You mentioned a handful of examples, most of which are either programmer/geek intended or niche (the LightScribe control panel? German's official tax app? language course CD apps? Virtualbox? scientific citation managers, etc?)... The fact is a user can go for years without ever using one. And in the tens of millions of apps available for Windows, QT based ones make for less than 1/1000...
    - sho_hn 11y ago
      I don't really know why you seem to have an axe to grind here. My original assertion was that most Windows PCs used by regular consumers have copies of Qt on them, and I stand by that. How that happens is not hard to see across the examples I gave: Widely deployed hardware support software, widely used content client software, auxiliary roles in widely used entertainment software, software required by law to use by a decently-sized country population, software used in content creation of various kinds, software used by students and in the course of common hobbies ... Yeah, a user can conceivably go for years without using one. By far most won't though, or will have Qt apps installed they don't use frequently. Qt is an 800k developer ecosystem[1] -- do you think they all work on Wireshark? Most of them write Windows apps. 1 = https://youtu.be/sa2gS9GKG9Y https://youtu.be/sa2gS9GKG9Y Edit: windows.com seems quite taken as well: https://blogs.windows.com/devices/2011/03/15/10-qt-use-cases-you-didnt-know/ https://blogs.windows.com/devices/2011/03/15/10-qt-use-cases...
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- rilut 11y ago
  Not a common app, but GOG Galaxy is built on Qt
dlitz 11y ago
> And Windows has been infamous for apps reinventing standard UI elements with skinned monstrosities. This becomes painfully obvious when you start working with any kind of GUI automation tools (e.g. AutoIt). I imagine users of screenreaders have similar issues.

by sho_hn 11y ago

donatj 11y ago

It's been about 5 years since I was a regular Windows user, but I can't think of a single Qt app I used on a regular basis. Care to name some examples?

JonathonW 11y ago
I am a regular Windows user (split between OSX and Windows, actually, but Windows gets used on a daily basis) and I can't think of a single Qt app I use on a regular basis now. Actually, with my current workflow, I can't think of a Qt or GTK app that I use on a regular basis on either platform. I guess Wireshark's Qt and it gets used occasionally. But most of the cross-platform Qt and GTK stuff I used to install (Pidgin and GIMP immediately come to mind) I haven't even installed on a machine in ages. I've moved to native alternatives for a lot of the stuff I run, and what cross-platform applications I do run (Chrome, Sublime, etc.) tend to implement UIs with the native toolkit, since that's a much better experience on non-Linux platforms.
- laumars 11y ago
  Chrome uses Aura (http://dev.chromium.org/developers/design-documents/aura http://dev.chromium.org/developers/design-documents/aura) I'd also argue that Qt applications are still "native" in that they run as a native EXE (or ELF on nix). Granted they don't use Win32 APIs, but then calling them non-native because of that is a little like calling Windows OpenGL games non-native because they don't use Direct3D. But that's an aside point. On the whole, I don't think it makes sense to categorise Windows desktop applications by what toolkit they use. MS Office 2003 didn't use Win32 toolbars. Office 2007 then introduced the ribbon bar, which changed in appearance in every subsequent release of MS Office. And even within MS Office, Microsoft doesn't always follow the same design patterns (Office 2007 used ribbon in Word and Excel but not in Outlook). Even outside of MS Office, some Windows applications in WinXP used different menu bars to the ones provided by the Win32 APIs (you can see by looking at whether menu items go 3D or just highlight when you hover over them). One example was the difference between Windows Explorer and Notepad. Plus often older Windows utilities go completely unaltered for years, eg the add font dialog box in XP was still using Windows 3.1 APIs: http://apagreekkeys.org/images/addFont1.jpg http://apagreekkeys.org/images/addFont1.jpg ....and this is all without discussing the disruption Metro has caused. I will grant you that in spite of these criticisms, Windows still fairs better than Linux in terms of uniformity. But it's certainly not consistent enough to define anything that doesn't use Win32 widgets as non-native.
cozzyd 11y ago
Skype might be the most popular.
- Qerub 11y ago
  Last time I checked Skype only used Qt on Linux.
- pjmlp 11y ago
  Skype was written in Delphi originally.
sho_hn 11y ago
EA's Origin and TeamSpeak (-> most PC gamers), VLC (-> most young tech-savvy media consumers), various device bundled software like the stuff that comes with TomTom GPS, the LightScribe control panel, ... it just accumulates. Germany's official tax app is Qt so that's a whole country right there. Many HN users might use VirtualBox which is Qt. The new Radeon Control Panel is Qt, too, so anyone who buys an AMD graphics card and installs the drivers. Many slightly geeky users use qBitorrent ever since uTorrent turned bad. Lots of one-off mini apps such as game launchers and settings apps are often Qt. And lots of weird random stuff people use for specific interests ... knitting pattern software, kids edutainment apps, language course CD apps, scientific citation managers, IRC clients and other messengers (Telegram desktop is Qt), ... This is before you get into pro apps like Mathematica or Maya (and half of Autodesk's other apps and Nuke and so on). Or not-pro but widely used and semigeeky stuff like Avidemux. Or Valve's video making tool for Source engine video games like TF2 used by game YouTubers and esports people. Qt is a pretty common way to write GUI apps for Windows. Just go to any regularly used Windows PC with a 20-something user and I almost guarantee you will find a few qtcore DLLs.
- coldtea 11y ago
  Common is an exaggeration. You mentioned a handful of examples, most of which are either programmer/geek intended or niche (the LightScribe control panel? German's official tax app? language course CD apps? Virtualbox? scientific citation managers, etc?)... The fact is a user can go for years without ever using one. And in the tens of millions of apps available for Windows, QT based ones make for less than 1/1000...
  - sho_hn 11y ago
    I don't really know why you seem to have an axe to grind here. My original assertion was that most Windows PCs used by regular consumers have copies of Qt on them, and I stand by that. How that happens is not hard to see across the examples I gave: Widely deployed hardware support software, widely used content client software, auxiliary roles in widely used entertainment software, software required by law to use by a decently-sized country population, software used in content creation of various kinds, software used by students and in the course of common hobbies ... Yeah, a user can conceivably go for years without using one. By far most won't though, or will have Qt apps installed they don't use frequently. Qt is an 800k developer ecosystem[1] -- do you think they all work on Wireshark? Most of them write Windows apps. 1 = https://youtu.be/sa2gS9GKG9Y https://youtu.be/sa2gS9GKG9Y Edit: windows.com seems quite taken as well: https://blogs.windows.com/devices/2011/03/15/10-qt-use-cases-you-didnt-know/ https://blogs.windows.com/devices/2011/03/15/10-qt-use-cases...
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
rilut 11y ago
Not a common app, but GOG Galaxy is built on Qt

dlitz 11y ago

> And Windows has been infamous for apps reinventing standard UI elements with skinned monstrosities. This becomes painfully obvious when you start working with any kind of GUI automation tools (e.g. AutoIt). I imagine users of screenreaders have similar issues.