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Exactly. Facebook is being disingenuous by making minor changes that may not really help people who get affected. It does not seem to consider the proposed chan

Exactly. Facebook is being disingenuous by making minor changes that may not really help people who get affected. It does not seem to consider the proposed changes from various people and organizations (like EFF). Even without a person's "authentic" name, Facebook has so much information that most people willingly part with that it could still sell a lot of well targeted ads. It seems like there's something else sinister that has not been revealed all this while as to why Facebook continues to "stand by" this names policy. Or the people making the decisions are incompetent to understand and uncaring to do something positive. Or both.

s3r3nity 11y ago
I don't think it's something sinister -- if you continuously base your conclusions in the hypothesis that Facebook is "evil" (whatever that means), then I can understand why you might feel that way. I see it as a smart product decision where the benefits outweigh the concerns of a vocal minority that project having to use your real name as this ludicrous sin, while at the same time saying that if you don't like a product you can just NOT use it. Why? I actually enjoy using FB infinitely more than Twitter/Myspace (years ago) because I see it as a network of people - not company profiles or shit like that. While they might layer on things like company pages or video content or other shit, the fundamental foundation of their product is the social graph, with people centered as the nodes. I don't give a shit about your screen name, and I don't want to have to try to remember it. Regardless if you agree/disagree, brand image does matter in the real world, and I think Facebook product folks know this.
- x0x0 11y ago
  We had almost this exact conversation with those liars over a year ago (Oct '14) and nothing changed [1] (look at the date on that post). Zuckerberg clearly doesn't believe in the importance of this because he could fix this with an email to the appropriate person. And it's nice that you see it as a network of people (with company pages all over the place, but whatevs), but as has been pointed out over and over and over and over, some people can't use their actual names. Maybe they're not out, maybe they have stalkers, maybe they're stuck in a country where they face violence for their political choices (hell, maybe they're muslim in America.) Being able to not give a shit about real names means you're one of the people privileged enough and from the right background such that you don't have people trying to hurt you for being yourself. [1] https://www.facebook.com/chris.cox/posts/10101301777354543 https://www.facebook.com/chris.cox/posts/10101301777354543
  - morgante 11y ago
    I think it's perfectly reasonable that you use the same name on Facebook and in daily life with your friends (note that is not necessarily the same as your legal name). It seems like that's Facebook's intention, though they have had trouble implementing it in the past. Things like checking what name most people call you on your birthday seem quite reasonable though.
    - forgottenpass 11y ago
      Things like checking what name most people call you on your birthday seem quite reasonable though. Not reasonable once you realize there are people who have well-used nicknames they might not want to go by on facebook, and just regular old ineffective if they have their birthday hidden in their profile.
      - morgante 11y ago
        > Not reasonable once you realize there are people who have well-used nicknames they might not want to go by on facebook Facebook has made a deliberately choice to be a social network for digitally mirroring your real life friendships, not establishing an independent "online" identity. If you don't like that, don't use Facebook. For me, the fact that Facebook is filled with my real friends, using their real identities, is essential to its utility.
  - s3r3nity 11y ago
    Avoiding the whole "real-name privilege" rabbit hole, I still stand by the point that nothing compels you to use their service/product -- there are a host of other products that allow the user to go by whatever pseudonym he/she deems fit. If the response is "no popular social network I want to use allows me to use a pseudonym to my liking," I again refer to one of my original points that there's probably a reason why it doesn't last, and why networks that try to allow it like Ello eventually don't grow/survive -- people put trust in a social network that feels like a network of real people. If you want citation for the last point, I'd point to the fast success of NextDoor, but I concede it's mostly a hypothesis, as I don't regularly use that product and haven't seen it since the beta.
- yarrel 11y ago
  I don't think water or electricity are evil. I wouldn't want to drown or be electrocuted. This doesn't require a hypothesis that water or electricity are "evil", it just requires an understanding that sometimes you don't want to suffer harm from something that otherwise might be a good thing. And, as you say, brand image does matter. That's why doubling down on a policy that leads to outing victims of violence, telling first nations people they don't have "real names", making it so you can't find anyone who has built their career under a stage or pen name, etc. wouldn't be the best move.
morgante 11y ago
It's a user experience decision. One of the major reasons I interact with Facebook far more than Twitter (for example) is that I always know who everyone is and can find a friend without trying to remember their cute screen name.
- mjg59 11y ago
  I can't find all of mine, because the name that they use for social interaction isn't the same as the name that Facebook will let them use.
  - morgante 11y ago
    I agree that Facebook should let you go by your "in person name" (even if that's not your real name), and their policy seems to support that. Hopefully this change will make it easier to follow the policy.
- Sanddancer 11y ago
  Using my legal name means that my family, that stalks and harasses me, can easily find me and use it as a medium for continuing to do so. Changing my legal name means that I would have to contact at least a dozen other entities which can be more or less as psychologically draining as the court process. Atop that, they have in the past hired sleezy private investigators which have pulled info from credit agencies so they could find and harass me. By being pseudonymous, I avoid all of those issues. Additionally, pretty much everyone I interact with knows me by my "fake" name. Forcing me to switch to that would result in a lot of friends not being able to find me. Yes, if you grew up in a "typical" family you don't have these issues, but there are a lot of people who have damn good reason for not wanting to have another outlet for people to continue abusing us.
  - Symbiote 11y ago
    ...And, you may even know people in this situation without realising it. I had been good friends with someone for about three years before discovering his real surname when I booked flights for a group. I doubt more than two or three of the people he spends time with most weekend know this; I've not told anyone. (On the other hand, I shared a hotel room with someone I was sure used a fake surname, since it sounded ridiculous, but it was on his driving license.)

s3r3nity 11y ago

I don't think it's something sinister -- if you continuously base your conclusions in the hypothesis that Facebook is "evil" (whatever that means), then I can understand why you might feel that way. I see it as a smart product decision where the benefits outweigh the concerns of a vocal minority that project having to use your real name as this ludicrous sin, while at the same time saying that if you don't like a product you can just NOT use it. Why? I actually enjoy using FB infinitely more than Twitter/Myspace (years ago) because I see it as a network of people - not company profiles or shit like that. While they might layer on things like company pages or video content or other shit, the fundamental foundation of their product is the social graph, with people centered as the nodes. I don't give a shit about your screen name, and I don't want to have to try to remember it. Regardless if you agree/disagree, brand image does matter in the real world, and I think Facebook product folks know this.

x0x0 11y ago
We had almost this exact conversation with those liars over a year ago (Oct '14) and nothing changed [1] (look at the date on that post). Zuckerberg clearly doesn't believe in the importance of this because he could fix this with an email to the appropriate person. And it's nice that you see it as a network of people (with company pages all over the place, but whatevs), but as has been pointed out over and over and over and over, some people can't use their actual names. Maybe they're not out, maybe they have stalkers, maybe they're stuck in a country where they face violence for their political choices (hell, maybe they're muslim in America.) Being able to not give a shit about real names means you're one of the people privileged enough and from the right background such that you don't have people trying to hurt you for being yourself. [1] https://www.facebook.com/chris.cox/posts/10101301777354543 https://www.facebook.com/chris.cox/posts/10101301777354543
- morgante 11y ago
  I think it's perfectly reasonable that you use the same name on Facebook and in daily life with your friends (note that is not necessarily the same as your legal name). It seems like that's Facebook's intention, though they have had trouble implementing it in the past. Things like checking what name most people call you on your birthday seem quite reasonable though.
  - forgottenpass 11y ago
    Things like checking what name most people call you on your birthday seem quite reasonable though. Not reasonable once you realize there are people who have well-used nicknames they might not want to go by on facebook, and just regular old ineffective if they have their birthday hidden in their profile.
    - morgante 11y ago
      > Not reasonable once you realize there are people who have well-used nicknames they might not want to go by on facebook Facebook has made a deliberately choice to be a social network for digitally mirroring your real life friendships, not establishing an independent "online" identity. If you don't like that, don't use Facebook. For me, the fact that Facebook is filled with my real friends, using their real identities, is essential to its utility.
- s3r3nity 11y ago
  Avoiding the whole "real-name privilege" rabbit hole, I still stand by the point that nothing compels you to use their service/product -- there are a host of other products that allow the user to go by whatever pseudonym he/she deems fit. If the response is "no popular social network I want to use allows me to use a pseudonym to my liking," I again refer to one of my original points that there's probably a reason why it doesn't last, and why networks that try to allow it like Ello eventually don't grow/survive -- people put trust in a social network that feels like a network of real people. If you want citation for the last point, I'd point to the fast success of NextDoor, but I concede it's mostly a hypothesis, as I don't regularly use that product and haven't seen it since the beta.
yarrel 11y ago
I don't think water or electricity are evil. I wouldn't want to drown or be electrocuted. This doesn't require a hypothesis that water or electricity are "evil", it just requires an understanding that sometimes you don't want to suffer harm from something that otherwise might be a good thing. And, as you say, brand image does matter. That's why doubling down on a policy that leads to outing victims of violence, telling first nations people they don't have "real names", making it so you can't find anyone who has built their career under a stage or pen name, etc. wouldn't be the best move.

morgante 11y ago

It's a user experience decision. One of the major reasons I interact with Facebook far more than Twitter (for example) is that I always know who everyone is and can find a friend without trying to remember their cute screen name.

mjg59 11y ago
I can't find all of mine, because the name that they use for social interaction isn't the same as the name that Facebook will let them use.
- morgante 11y ago
  I agree that Facebook should let you go by your "in person name" (even if that's not your real name), and their policy seems to support that. Hopefully this change will make it easier to follow the policy.
Sanddancer 11y ago
Using my legal name means that my family, that stalks and harasses me, can easily find me and use it as a medium for continuing to do so. Changing my legal name means that I would have to contact at least a dozen other entities which can be more or less as psychologically draining as the court process. Atop that, they have in the past hired sleezy private investigators which have pulled info from credit agencies so they could find and harass me. By being pseudonymous, I avoid all of those issues. Additionally, pretty much everyone I interact with knows me by my "fake" name. Forcing me to switch to that would result in a lot of friends not being able to find me. Yes, if you grew up in a "typical" family you don't have these issues, but there are a lot of people who have damn good reason for not wanting to have another outlet for people to continue abusing us.
- Symbiote 11y ago
  ...And, you may even know people in this situation without realising it. I had been good friends with someone for about three years before discovering his real surname when I booked flights for a group. I doubt more than two or three of the people he spends time with most weekend know this; I've not told anyone. (On the other hand, I shared a hotel room with someone I was sure used a fake surname, since it sounded ridiculous, but it was on his driving license.)