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I feel like I've read this same damned article a half dozen times over the span of as many years. Facebook has conflicting goals: Knowing literally everything a

I feel like I've read this same damned article a half dozen times over the span of as many years. Facebook has conflicting goals: Knowing literally everything about their users so they can sell access to that data (indirectly, generally, in the form of targeted ads, etc.), and having people not completely hate them. They fiddle with their terms of service (particularly this one policy, which is most egregiously anti-consumer) every few months, when the noise gets loud enough that they can't ignore it, it lets a little steam out of the pressure to change, and they go back to the highly profitable business of being mildly evil. As with every change facebook has made to their real names policy, they've made it clear they are in control of your identity online. If you use a name that is not your legal name, they make you jump through hoops to satisfy Facebook's desire to know who you are. I'm not saying they can't do this; of course they can. But, it's time for people to stop letting them get away with the claim that the policy benefits anyone other than facebook. I know people who have had to jump through those hoops, even after the last round of "we're changing the real names policy, it's totally fine!" articles. People with abusive exes, trans folks, sex workers and entertainers for whom the line between "personal" and "professional" life is thin and could be dangerous for them to have it get too thin (like having their real name on social media), and folks who just prefer to use another name and are known as that name among all of their friends. Trans folks have been in front on protesting this because they have frequently experienced shame and fear at having their identity challenged, and facebook is doing it online on a massive scale. Probably every trans person has experienced having to show ID to prove they are male or female. They've experienced having to argue with family over what name they wish to use. They've experienced being incorrectly called "sir" or "ma'am" or "he" or "she", even after clarifying that they prefer something else. Facebook is being the asshole that keeps using the wrong pronouns/names/etc. despite being asked not to, and when challenged on it, demands to see ID to "prove it". Again, they can do whatever they want; they're a private entity with their own goals and desires. But, we don't have to buy any bullshit about why they're doing it.

mtgx 11y ago
My favorite Facebook reaction is everytime they get caught doing something what most consider "evil", they say it's just a "technical error" and that it will be fixed. Then two or three years later make that change the default for the whole service. It's just kind of funny to keep seeing this happen. They did it at least twice with the cookie that tracks you across the web even when you've signed out of Facebook, and they kept using that excuse that it's a technical error. Then when the EU privacy bodies actually called them out on it in Courts, their "whoops, we never intended to do that" excuse suddenly turned into "waaait a minute, we use that feature for security...and stuff! Why are you hurting your citizens, EU?!"
zeveb 11y ago
> Facebook is being the asshole that keeps using the wrong pronouns/names/etc. despite being asked not to, and when challenged on it, demands to see ID to "prove it". If you tell me to call you Lord Joseph, is it really so wrong for me to ask you for your credentials? If I refer to you as 'him,' not 'His Lordship,' am I really the one in the wrong?
- SwellJoe 11y ago
  I've mentioned a situation, that many trans folks experience, where someone asks to be called by their preferred gender pronoun and the person they ask refuses to do so. And, I've mentioned that many trans folks find that kind of response hurtful. And, you've made a joke comparing that to someone wanting to be treated like royalty. Do you sincerely believe the two situations are comparable?
  - Torgo 11y ago
    "Lil Miss Hot Mess" is a stage name, and I am not obligated to recognize it. I actually find it not comparable at all to compare it to someone's gender-identified pronouns and perfectly applicable to what OP was saying.
    - SwellJoe 11y ago
      The question that raises for me is: Do the outliers make it OK to cause harm to those who aren't so "far out" in their choice of name? In other words, because you don't like the name "Lil Miss Hot Mess" (I assume because it is not as serious as "Joe" or "Torgo", as names go), is it OK to call anyone by whatever name you prefer, and refuse to acknowledge them as anything else? Whether I think "Lil Miss Hot Mess" is a ridiculous name or not doesn't alter the reality that facebook daily "disappears" people's accounts whose names aren't up to their standards. This change in policy gives people a week to protest that disappearance, but it doesn't change facebook's level of control. They still decide who you can be online (at least on facebook). The thing is that I don't know where to draw that line on what is "too ridiculous", and I don't think anyone else really does, either. So, given that names are arbitrary (even when enforcing a "real names" policy, there are people who have ridiculous names), and given that enforcing a real names policy harms countless people, and given that not enforcing real names has very little negative result except to facebook's bottom line (and even that is negligible), I just don't see it as defensible. The argument that it prevents abuse and bullying is shown to be a lie by the fact that this policy has been used, since facebook's inception, to bully people, and facebook has for all that time remained complicit, and even an active participant, in that bullying. You can't claim to want to prevent bullying if you're the one holding the victim down while someone else punches them.

mtgx 11y ago

My favorite Facebook reaction is everytime they get caught doing something what most consider "evil", they say it's just a "technical error" and that it will be fixed. Then two or three years later make that change the default for the whole service. It's just kind of funny to keep seeing this happen. They did it at least twice with the cookie that tracks you across the web even when you've signed out of Facebook, and they kept using that excuse that it's a technical error. Then when the EU privacy bodies actually called them out on it in Courts, their "whoops, we never intended to do that" excuse suddenly turned into "waaait a minute, we use that feature for security...and stuff! Why are you hurting your citizens, EU?!"

zeveb 11y ago

> Facebook is being the asshole that keeps using the wrong pronouns/names/etc. despite being asked not to, and when challenged on it, demands to see ID to "prove it". If you tell me to call you Lord Joseph, is it really so wrong for me to ask you for your credentials? If I refer to you as 'him,' not 'His Lordship,' am I really the one in the wrong?

SwellJoe 11y ago
I've mentioned a situation, that many trans folks experience, where someone asks to be called by their preferred gender pronoun and the person they ask refuses to do so. And, I've mentioned that many trans folks find that kind of response hurtful. And, you've made a joke comparing that to someone wanting to be treated like royalty. Do you sincerely believe the two situations are comparable?
- Torgo 11y ago
  "Lil Miss Hot Mess" is a stage name, and I am not obligated to recognize it. I actually find it not comparable at all to compare it to someone's gender-identified pronouns and perfectly applicable to what OP was saying.
  - SwellJoe 11y ago
    The question that raises for me is: Do the outliers make it OK to cause harm to those who aren't so "far out" in their choice of name? In other words, because you don't like the name "Lil Miss Hot Mess" (I assume because it is not as serious as "Joe" or "Torgo", as names go), is it OK to call anyone by whatever name you prefer, and refuse to acknowledge them as anything else? Whether I think "Lil Miss Hot Mess" is a ridiculous name or not doesn't alter the reality that facebook daily "disappears" people's accounts whose names aren't up to their standards. This change in policy gives people a week to protest that disappearance, but it doesn't change facebook's level of control. They still decide who you can be online (at least on facebook). The thing is that I don't know where to draw that line on what is "too ridiculous", and I don't think anyone else really does, either. So, given that names are arbitrary (even when enforcing a "real names" policy, there are people who have ridiculous names), and given that enforcing a real names policy harms countless people, and given that not enforcing real names has very little negative result except to facebook's bottom line (and even that is negligible), I just don't see it as defensible. The argument that it prevents abuse and bullying is shown to be a lie by the fact that this policy has been used, since facebook's inception, to bully people, and facebook has for all that time remained complicit, and even an active participant, in that bullying. You can't claim to want to prevent bullying if you're the one holding the victim down while someone else punches them.