7 ms·

This Christmas, give the gift of a blameless life to someone you love

72 points by nkurz 11y ago

mcherm 11y ago
I genuinely can't tell whether this is a spoof, or is real. If it's a spoof, I have to give credit: it is masterfully done. If it is real, then they should probably work a little harder on trying not to sound like a spoof.
- NIL8 11y ago
  Well said.
- ggchappell 11y ago
  It's a humor piece that attempts to get us to think about the issue. The quote is invented. The product is not real. But the ideas are -- hopefully -- thought provoking one. EDIT. As user tremon noted, there is a word for this: the piece is satire.
rrss1122 11y ago
The guilt machine has gotten so efficient, indulgences are looking like a desirable possibility.
- themartorana 11y ago
  And why not? Catholic indulgences were about making God feel good about you. This is more about making you feel good about you, which is already a huge market.
  - rrss1122 11y ago
    Indulgences were always about making you feel good about you. The Catholic Church merely took some money for the privilege.
jawns 11y ago
The CaaS (Confession as a Service) space is certainly heating up. And no wonder. The Catholic Church has been giving absolution away for centuries, but what if you're not Catholic? Or what if you want a luxury/premium reconciliation experience, rather than the standard shuffle into a cramped, dark confessional booth on a Saturday afternoon? The time is definitely ripe for disruption. Can't wait for the mobile app.
- ue_ 11y ago
  >The CaaS (Confession as a Service) space is certainly heating up. This reminds me of a song by Momus which is about a "Catholic app", a smartphone app made by the Catholic Church to listen to prayers and confessions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aq7jg3OZc1g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aq7jg3OZc1g
  - jawns 11y ago
    There actually are a bunch of Catholic apps related to confession -- the most popular of which is http://www.littleiapps.com/confession/ http://www.littleiapps.com/confession/ -- but none is meant to take the place of the sacrament itself. They just walk you through the process of making a good confession.
- TeMPOraL 11y ago
  A list of ridiculous startup ideas I saw one day had "automated processing of confessional secrets" on it. I guess it's no longer ridiculous.
- jrcii 11y ago
  The presence of God's grace in the holy sacrament of Penance is what gives it a "luxury/premium" quality regardless of the physical environment. An app, which does not confer God's grace, can never be "luxury/premium" for this reason and can not "disrupt" the sacrament.
  - tomjen3 11y ago
    Parent is making a joke, but surely God can be present through an app, if he so chooses?
inatreecrown 11y ago
Great to read this here.
JoachimSchipper 11y ago
Related: http://www.oxfam.org.uk/shop/oxfam-unwrapped http://www.oxfam.org.uk/shop/oxfam-unwrapped already exists; http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/04/ethics-offsets/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/04/ethics-offsets/ explores some of the (creepy) implications of ethics offsets.
- codeulike 11y ago
  As far as I can tell, the simplest cases here are 100% legit. Your link.
- coldpie 11y ago
  Honestly one of the biggest reasons I don't donate more is I fucking hate how much junk mail and spam I get as a result. Oxfam has been sending us two or three letters a month for years. I wish there was some way to anonymously donate to charities, so they wouldn't ever receive any contact information for me. Maybe send them paper cash in the mail or something......
  - dingaling 11y ago
    Anonymous donating would be fantastic. My wife has a direct debit for UNICEF which sends a few pounds their way each money. Yet several times per year they write to her and ask her to increase her donation or give a top-up sum. The next time she receives one she will be phoning them to cancel. I really don't understand the psychology of charities.
  - ksenzee 11y ago
    I recommend networkforgood.org. They give you the choice of how much of your personal information to share with the receiving charity. Since my dad died I sometimes donate in his name to his favorite charity, and I don't have to give them so much as an email address. Network for Good has never spammed me, either.
    - coldpie 11y ago
      Thank you for the recommendation, I will check it out.
Sarki 11y ago
Unbelievable... I sincerely hope it's a joke.
- rawTruthHurts 11y ago
  "As part of our own commitment to making the world a better place 10% of our profits go to providing blankets, electronic journal access and dental insurance to unemployed moral philosophy phds." I don't think so, this guys are here for real!
relkor 11y ago
This was fantastic. These are the kinds of articles that I read HN for. Keep up the great work Internet!
kelvin0 11y ago
Bypass all the middlemen, order now! http://reserveaspotinheaven.com/ http://reserveaspotinheaven.com/
codeulike 11y ago
I seriously disagree with this (assuming its not a joke, or that some people wont read it as such). We live in an intensely interconnected world, and although its challenging to unpick those connections, to not do so is to become complicit in all manor of frankly very bad shit. We only get to vote once every 4 or 5 years, but every time you spend (or earn) a dollar or pound, you are contributing to a system, you are channeling money in a particular direction. Giant corporations have, without any need for anyone to plan it, slowly accumulated more and more power to themselves. e.g. check up on the series of judgements that were used to grant them personhood. They now stomp about the planet like huge immortal toddlers, with little oversight and not much in the way of conscience. If you dont care, then fine. But if you do care dont let articles like this tell you not to bother. And yes ethical consumption is complicated. A good starting point is to assume everything is tainted unless you know otherwise. And although none of the supposed 'good' ways are straightforward (there are complex arguments around Fair Trade, Organic etc), you should never let the perfect become the enemy of the good. That is, dont be pit off from trying to do one thing right just because you can't do everything right. Buying stuff secondhand where possible is a good default position I find (although there are debates around that as well)
- paulojreis 11y ago
  I agree with you. What I see (in this article and many other similar statements) is the rationalization of being part of evil and then the next logical step, the rationalization of doing it without feeling guilty or bad. "I have to do evil because I need to eat" and then "I have to forgive myself for this, otherwise life's unbearable". There are people - me included - actively applying strategies to don't feel bad about being part of evil. So, we know this, and we're spending time thinking about this; how do we channel the energy to revert instead of keeping the system as is?
- strictnein 11y ago
  > "check up on the series of judgements that were used to grant them personhood" Corporate personhood is a centuries old idea, and an important one at that. The idea that it was created recently is false. http://www.law.virginia.edu/html/alumni/uvalawyer/f11/personhood.htm http://www.law.virginia.edu/html/alumni/uvalawyer/f11/person...
twoquestions 11y ago
So somebody figured out a startup idea from ancient Catholic policy? I'm actually quite amazed that somebody didn't think up the idea of a secular indulgence system before! I sincerely hope this is a joke.
ruffrey 11y ago
John Stuart Mill's ghost high fives Jeremy Bentham's UC London corpse
mingus68040 11y ago
Anyone who imbues themselves with guilt over any of the issues mentioned in this article has completely missed the point. The goal of various NGOs is to influence government policy, and the goal of someone striving for social justice is to convince citizens and political leaders to act in ways that advance justice. Guilt alone cannot accomplish those things and is not helpful to anyone.
kafkaesque 11y ago
He forgot to mention the unethical practice of extreme consumerism.
lurkinggrue 11y ago
I've already purchased several indulgences from the church. Fuck what Marten Luther had to say on this.... I'm all set!
maxander 11y ago
I'm confused by the people who are confused whether this is satire, but (like most good satire) it raises valid points. Being "moral" in how we live our day-to-day lives is complicated, and it would be great if we could somehow offload some of that complexity. We already do this to an extent with organizations that track the effectiveness of various kinds of charitable giving- CharityWatch, for instance. Along the lines of the article, something that monitors your purchases and lets you know things like "that brand uses child labor, this alternative is okay" or "this meat was obtained with an estimated ecological impact of $1.0245/kg" would really be useful (if only in a "now I don't have to google everything to feel safe" sense.) There's a real-live potential blockbuster app in that (if only because, aside from everything else, it would have lots of interesting info about your purchasing habits...)

72 points by nkurz 11y ago

I genuinely can't tell whether this is a spoof, or is real. If it's a spoof, I have to give credit: it is masterfully done. If it is real, then they should probably work a little harder on trying not to sound like a spoof.

NIL8 11y ago
Well said.
ggchappell 11y ago
It's a humor piece that attempts to get us to think about the issue. The quote is invented. The product is not real. But the ideas are -- hopefully -- thought provoking one. EDIT. As user tremon noted, there is a word for this: the piece is satire.

rrss1122 11y ago

The guilt machine has gotten so efficient, indulgences are looking like a desirable possibility.

themartorana 11y ago
And why not? Catholic indulgences were about making God feel good about you. This is more about making you feel good about you, which is already a huge market.
- rrss1122 11y ago
  Indulgences were always about making you feel good about you. The Catholic Church merely took some money for the privilege.

jawns 11y ago

The CaaS (Confession as a Service) space is certainly heating up. And no wonder. The Catholic Church has been giving absolution away for centuries, but what if you're not Catholic? Or what if you want a luxury/premium reconciliation experience, rather than the standard shuffle into a cramped, dark confessional booth on a Saturday afternoon? The time is definitely ripe for disruption. Can't wait for the mobile app.

ue_ 11y ago
>The CaaS (Confession as a Service) space is certainly heating up. This reminds me of a song by Momus which is about a "Catholic app", a smartphone app made by the Catholic Church to listen to prayers and confessions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aq7jg3OZc1g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aq7jg3OZc1g
- jawns 11y ago
  There actually are a bunch of Catholic apps related to confession -- the most popular of which is http://www.littleiapps.com/confession/ http://www.littleiapps.com/confession/ -- but none is meant to take the place of the sacrament itself. They just walk you through the process of making a good confession.
TeMPOraL 11y ago
A list of ridiculous startup ideas I saw one day had "automated processing of confessional secrets" on it. I guess it's no longer ridiculous.
jrcii 11y ago
The presence of God's grace in the holy sacrament of Penance is what gives it a "luxury/premium" quality regardless of the physical environment. An app, which does not confer God's grace, can never be "luxury/premium" for this reason and can not "disrupt" the sacrament.
- tomjen3 11y ago
  Parent is making a joke, but surely God can be present through an app, if he so chooses?

inatreecrown 11y ago

Great to read this here.

JoachimSchipper 11y ago

Related: http://www.oxfam.org.uk/shop/oxfam-unwrapped http://www.oxfam.org.uk/shop/oxfam-unwrapped already exists; http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/04/ethics-offsets/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/04/ethics-offsets/ explores some of the (creepy) implications of ethics offsets.

codeulike 11y ago
As far as I can tell, the simplest cases here are 100% legit. Your link.
coldpie 11y ago
Honestly one of the biggest reasons I don't donate more is I fucking hate how much junk mail and spam I get as a result. Oxfam has been sending us two or three letters a month for years. I wish there was some way to anonymously donate to charities, so they wouldn't ever receive any contact information for me. Maybe send them paper cash in the mail or something......
- dingaling 11y ago
  Anonymous donating would be fantastic. My wife has a direct debit for UNICEF which sends a few pounds their way each money. Yet several times per year they write to her and ask her to increase her donation or give a top-up sum. The next time she receives one she will be phoning them to cancel. I really don't understand the psychology of charities.
- ksenzee 11y ago
  I recommend networkforgood.org. They give you the choice of how much of your personal information to share with the receiving charity. Since my dad died I sometimes donate in his name to his favorite charity, and I don't have to give them so much as an email address. Network for Good has never spammed me, either.
  - coldpie 11y ago
    Thank you for the recommendation, I will check it out.

Sarki 11y ago

Unbelievable... I sincerely hope it's a joke.

rawTruthHurts 11y ago
"As part of our own commitment to making the world a better place 10% of our profits go to providing blankets, electronic journal access and dental insurance to unemployed moral philosophy phds." I don't think so, this guys are here for real!

relkor 11y ago

This was fantastic. These are the kinds of articles that I read HN for. Keep up the great work Internet!

kelvin0 11y ago

Bypass all the middlemen, order now! http://reserveaspotinheaven.com/ http://reserveaspotinheaven.com/

codeulike 11y ago

I seriously disagree with this (assuming its not a joke, or that some people wont read it as such). We live in an intensely interconnected world, and although its challenging to unpick those connections, to not do so is to become complicit in all manor of frankly very bad shit. We only get to vote once every 4 or 5 years, but every time you spend (or earn) a dollar or pound, you are contributing to a system, you are channeling money in a particular direction. Giant corporations have, without any need for anyone to plan it, slowly accumulated more and more power to themselves. e.g. check up on the series of judgements that were used to grant them personhood. They now stomp about the planet like huge immortal toddlers, with little oversight and not much in the way of conscience. If you dont care, then fine. But if you do care dont let articles like this tell you not to bother. And yes ethical consumption is complicated. A good starting point is to assume everything is tainted unless you know otherwise. And although none of the supposed 'good' ways are straightforward (there are complex arguments around Fair Trade, Organic etc), you should never let the perfect become the enemy of the good. That is, dont be pit off from trying to do one thing right just because you can't do everything right. Buying stuff secondhand where possible is a good default position I find (although there are debates around that as well)

paulojreis 11y ago
I agree with you. What I see (in this article and many other similar statements) is the rationalization of being part of evil and then the next logical step, the rationalization of doing it without feeling guilty or bad. "I have to do evil because I need to eat" and then "I have to forgive myself for this, otherwise life's unbearable". There are people - me included - actively applying strategies to don't feel bad about being part of evil. So, we know this, and we're spending time thinking about this; how do we channel the energy to revert instead of keeping the system as is?
strictnein 11y ago
> "check up on the series of judgements that were used to grant them personhood" Corporate personhood is a centuries old idea, and an important one at that. The idea that it was created recently is false. http://www.law.virginia.edu/html/alumni/uvalawyer/f11/personhood.htm http://www.law.virginia.edu/html/alumni/uvalawyer/f11/person...

twoquestions 11y ago

So somebody figured out a startup idea from ancient Catholic policy? I'm actually quite amazed that somebody didn't think up the idea of a secular indulgence system before! I sincerely hope this is a joke.

ruffrey 11y ago

John Stuart Mill's ghost high fives Jeremy Bentham's UC London corpse

mingus68040 11y ago

Anyone who imbues themselves with guilt over any of the issues mentioned in this article has completely missed the point. The goal of various NGOs is to influence government policy, and the goal of someone striving for social justice is to convince citizens and political leaders to act in ways that advance justice. Guilt alone cannot accomplish those things and is not helpful to anyone.

kafkaesque 11y ago

He forgot to mention the unethical practice of extreme consumerism.

lurkinggrue 11y ago

I've already purchased several indulgences from the church. Fuck what Marten Luther had to say on this.... I'm all set!

maxander 11y ago

I'm confused by the people who are confused whether this is satire, but (like most good satire) it raises valid points. Being "moral" in how we live our day-to-day lives is complicated, and it would be great if we could somehow offload some of that complexity. We already do this to an extent with organizations that track the effectiveness of various kinds of charitable giving- CharityWatch, for instance. Along the lines of the article, something that monitors your purchases and lets you know things like "that brand uses child labor, this alternative is okay" or "this meat was obtained with an estimated ecological impact of $1.0245/kg" would really be useful (if only in a "now I don't have to google everything to feel safe" sense.) There's a real-live potential blockbuster app in that (if only because, aside from everything else, it would have lots of interesting info about your purchasing habits...)