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When people point out that Google is behind Angular, they fail to mention that the level of investment is nowhere near that of Facebook in React. I've been lov

by yonibot 11y ago

When people point out that Google is behind Angular, they fail to mention that the level of investment is nowhere near that of Facebook in React. I've been loving using React. Building in components is fantastic, and it just feels like writing Javascript. That's a win in my books.

Bahamut 11y ago
I'm pretty sure Google has invested millions more into Angular & the ecosystem than Facebook has into React - they even have a CSM on the Angular team. Even internally the investment seems to be proving vast, as Google even has a production Angular 2 app already (during the painful alpha) & multiple teams publicly pledging to use it, which will probably grow as it becomes appropriate for Google to migrate products to Angular 2. Google has a rarified number of software products compared to Facebook - it's irrational to assume all of them will jump to their framework immediately, especially considering it was in heavy R&D the past two years & only now entering beta.
- dvcc 11y ago
  I assume he means investment as in how much they use the product. Their two top products, Facebook and Instagram heavily use React. A bunch of Google products do use Angular, but in no way are they the primary products and that probably lends to the less fluid progression.
  - pbz 11y ago
    Google AdWords is not primary enough?!
lewisl9029 11y ago
This is a pretty important point to consider. If Google was as invested in Angular as Facebook was in React, they would probably have gone with a more gradual, methodical approach to improving the framework (like the Ember team did). And until that changes, there is very little stopping them from doing another mostly incompatible rewrite in a few years. As it stands, Angular 2 is closer to a completely new framework roughly inspired by Angular 1.x than a new version of Angular.
- rtpg 11y ago
  This is a nice worldview but doesn't hold up to the evidence. Google has said they have something like 10k Angular 1.x apps, so they will keep on working on Angular 1. Angular 2 happening along this support is showing that they're willing to invest in the conservative route and the "burn down the libraries" route at the same time.
  - lewisl9029 11y ago
    By level of investment, both me and the OP meant in terms of products that are key to the company's operations, and need to be continuously supported and improved. Facebook is one such app for Facebook that uses React. Instagram is one such app for Facebook that also uses React. I honestly don't know any such app for Google that uses Angular. Until that changes, there is very little incentive for the Angular team to keep improving upon the existing solution instead of building something completely new with no regard for the people that depend on it. The so called upgrade path they offer for Angular 1.x is a complete joke. That you can "mix Angular 2 into your existing Angular 1 application" would be a true statement with any component-oriented framework in place of Angular 2, like React, and Ember. And this was not true for Ember just a few months ago, which is living proof that gradual improvement can in fact be accomplished with any framework, but of course, throwing everything away is much easier, so the framework developers need to have strong incentives to not do so.
    - Nitramp 11y ago
      Angular 2 is the framework for Google's AdWords products. So it's core to how Google makes its money.
      - andreyf 11y ago
        Also, the Google cloud platform dashboard.
    - LocalPCGuy 11y ago
      Google uses Angular in over 1000 internally and externally facing apps, including some on Angular2 already. They are also on the main trunk, and update on commit. The test suite for Angular at Google actually checks not only the Angular tests, but also all of the tests for all 1000+ apps at Google that use Angular, before allowing it to be deployed.
EugeneOZ 11y ago
All new Google's project I see use Angular. Fiber, StarWars, Cloud Platform.. all of them.
- nailer 11y ago
  Sure but look at the critical, consumer facing stuff: gMail doesn't use Angular, FB does use React.
  - EugeneOZ 11y ago
    To be fair, ng1 wasn't good enough for such huge apps. NG2 is good enough - incredibly performant, with server-side rendering, with support of TypeScript (refactoring of huge amounts in code in IDE), with real components encapsulation and DI. And some ideas were inspired by React - such as reactive data flow ("one-way", as it called in docs). So I think Google will do it. Google Fiber is ng2 already :)
  - grumblestumble 11y ago
    I'm pretty sure Doubleclick is far more 'critical' than gMail, from Google's perspective.
  - hieu 11y ago
    They mentioned Adwords here, too. http://angularjs.blogspot.com/2015/11/highlights-from-angularconnect-2015.html http://angularjs.blogspot.com/2015/11/highlights-from-angula... I'd argue Adwords is one of the most important Google products.
nailer 11y ago
Google is behind Angular, as are other large companies, but the product was made for 'Angular', an online JSON storage product by Brat Tech LLC, hosted at getangular.com. The company failed, but one of the people there got a job at Google. The point is that - despite the common misconception - Angular isn't Google's Anointed JS Framework. There's a whole bunch of Polymer and a whole bunch of GWT inside Google.
plexicle 11y ago
I don't understand the point of this comment. Almost every new Google service I see is written in Angular. Why are we jumping on comparing it to React already? Maybe let's withhold judgement until we actually use it. Just a thought.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
liquidise 11y ago
Apples to Fruit Basket comparison. React is a strict view layer, though i've seen too many instances of people trying to make it a ubiquitous framework. Angular is far wider reaching library. What exactly is your point here?
- 49531 11y ago
  No, its not an apples to fruit basket comparison. When people talk about React they're not talking about only React, but more likely a front end app that implements React. No one is saying "oh I love writing view layers. It's way better than actually building things".
  - marpstar 11y ago
    I disagree. The distinction is worth pointing out, and he's right. Angular is more than just the view layer (directives). It provides the structure for the rest of your app. Other tech like Knockout.js is more comparable to React, as it's only solving the view layer problem.
    - 49531 11y ago
      If you're in New York, and you want to travel to London, you can either fly on a plane, or take a boat ride. If I am trying to compare the pros and cons of flying vs sea travel, a distinction between the fact that a ship is not an airplane isn't really important. Two vastly different approaches can attempt to solve the same problem, and they're worth considering on equal ground. On a side note, when people mention working with React, it's safe to assume (if they're building real software) that they are using React with a framework, whether that be some implementation of Flux or Relay or something else entirely. When comparing Angular to React / Flux you've got yourself an apples to apples comparison.
      - ubertaco 11y ago
        Not really; a better analogy is if I'm in Kansas and I want to get to Beijing. I can fly all the way there, or I can take a car/plane/train to a boat to a car/plane/train. Angular is the airline flight(s), React is the boat. It won't get you all the way there on its own.
Veratyr 11y ago
Google's Polymer [0] is probably closer to React than Angular. Angular's more of an application framework. Polymer's more of a Web Components[1] framework, which I think is closer to what React is doing. [0]: https://www.polymer-project.org/1.0/ https://www.polymer-project.org/1.0/ [1]: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Web_Components https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Web_Components
- ohsnap 11y ago
  Long term I can see web components/polymer shims being preferred over React, but not till the major browsers catch up. Like the parent says, Facebook is deeply invested in making React work and it really shows. Angular/Polymer always seems more r&d/experimental to me, which is great but not for people who want to do production work.
  - auvrw 11y ago
    it's not either/or react.c : Activity/Fragment :: web component : View :: web : Android (???<_<)

by yonibot 11y ago

Bahamut 11y ago

I'm pretty sure Google has invested millions more into Angular & the ecosystem than Facebook has into React - they even have a CSM on the Angular team. Even internally the investment seems to be proving vast, as Google even has a production Angular 2 app already (during the painful alpha) & multiple teams publicly pledging to use it, which will probably grow as it becomes appropriate for Google to migrate products to Angular 2. Google has a rarified number of software products compared to Facebook - it's irrational to assume all of them will jump to their framework immediately, especially considering it was in heavy R&D the past two years & only now entering beta.

dvcc 11y ago
I assume he means investment as in how much they use the product. Their two top products, Facebook and Instagram heavily use React. A bunch of Google products do use Angular, but in no way are they the primary products and that probably lends to the less fluid progression.
- pbz 11y ago
  Google AdWords is not primary enough?!

lewisl9029 11y ago

This is a pretty important point to consider. If Google was as invested in Angular as Facebook was in React, they would probably have gone with a more gradual, methodical approach to improving the framework (like the Ember team did). And until that changes, there is very little stopping them from doing another mostly incompatible rewrite in a few years. As it stands, Angular 2 is closer to a completely new framework roughly inspired by Angular 1.x than a new version of Angular.

rtpg 11y ago
This is a nice worldview but doesn't hold up to the evidence. Google has said they have something like 10k Angular 1.x apps, so they will keep on working on Angular 1. Angular 2 happening along this support is showing that they're willing to invest in the conservative route and the "burn down the libraries" route at the same time.
- lewisl9029 11y ago
  By level of investment, both me and the OP meant in terms of products that are key to the company's operations, and need to be continuously supported and improved. Facebook is one such app for Facebook that uses React. Instagram is one such app for Facebook that also uses React. I honestly don't know any such app for Google that uses Angular. Until that changes, there is very little incentive for the Angular team to keep improving upon the existing solution instead of building something completely new with no regard for the people that depend on it. The so called upgrade path they offer for Angular 1.x is a complete joke. That you can "mix Angular 2 into your existing Angular 1 application" would be a true statement with any component-oriented framework in place of Angular 2, like React, and Ember. And this was not true for Ember just a few months ago, which is living proof that gradual improvement can in fact be accomplished with any framework, but of course, throwing everything away is much easier, so the framework developers need to have strong incentives to not do so.
  - Nitramp 11y ago
    Angular 2 is the framework for Google's AdWords products. So it's core to how Google makes its money.
    - andreyf 11y ago
      Also, the Google cloud platform dashboard.
  - LocalPCGuy 11y ago
    Google uses Angular in over 1000 internally and externally facing apps, including some on Angular2 already. They are also on the main trunk, and update on commit. The test suite for Angular at Google actually checks not only the Angular tests, but also all of the tests for all 1000+ apps at Google that use Angular, before allowing it to be deployed.

EugeneOZ 11y ago

All new Google's project I see use Angular. Fiber, StarWars, Cloud Platform.. all of them.

nailer 11y ago
Sure but look at the critical, consumer facing stuff: gMail doesn't use Angular, FB does use React.
- EugeneOZ 11y ago
  To be fair, ng1 wasn't good enough for such huge apps. NG2 is good enough - incredibly performant, with server-side rendering, with support of TypeScript (refactoring of huge amounts in code in IDE), with real components encapsulation and DI. And some ideas were inspired by React - such as reactive data flow ("one-way", as it called in docs). So I think Google will do it. Google Fiber is ng2 already :)
- grumblestumble 11y ago
  I'm pretty sure Doubleclick is far more 'critical' than gMail, from Google's perspective.
- hieu 11y ago
  They mentioned Adwords here, too. http://angularjs.blogspot.com/2015/11/highlights-from-angularconnect-2015.html http://angularjs.blogspot.com/2015/11/highlights-from-angula... I'd argue Adwords is one of the most important Google products.

nailer 11y ago

Google is behind Angular, as are other large companies, but the product was made for 'Angular', an online JSON storage product by Brat Tech LLC, hosted at getangular.com. The company failed, but one of the people there got a job at Google. The point is that - despite the common misconception - Angular isn't Google's Anointed JS Framework. There's a whole bunch of Polymer and a whole bunch of GWT inside Google.

plexicle 11y ago

I don't understand the point of this comment. Almost every new Google service I see is written in Angular. Why are we jumping on comparing it to React already? Maybe let's withhold judgement until we actually use it. Just a thought.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

liquidise 11y ago

Apples to Fruit Basket comparison. React is a strict view layer, though i've seen too many instances of people trying to make it a ubiquitous framework. Angular is far wider reaching library. What exactly is your point here?

49531 11y ago
No, its not an apples to fruit basket comparison. When people talk about React they're not talking about only React, but more likely a front end app that implements React. No one is saying "oh I love writing view layers. It's way better than actually building things".
- marpstar 11y ago
  I disagree. The distinction is worth pointing out, and he's right. Angular is more than just the view layer (directives). It provides the structure for the rest of your app. Other tech like Knockout.js is more comparable to React, as it's only solving the view layer problem.
  - 49531 11y ago
    If you're in New York, and you want to travel to London, you can either fly on a plane, or take a boat ride. If I am trying to compare the pros and cons of flying vs sea travel, a distinction between the fact that a ship is not an airplane isn't really important. Two vastly different approaches can attempt to solve the same problem, and they're worth considering on equal ground. On a side note, when people mention working with React, it's safe to assume (if they're building real software) that they are using React with a framework, whether that be some implementation of Flux or Relay or something else entirely. When comparing Angular to React / Flux you've got yourself an apples to apples comparison.
    - ubertaco 11y ago
      Not really; a better analogy is if I'm in Kansas and I want to get to Beijing. I can fly all the way there, or I can take a car/plane/train to a boat to a car/plane/train. Angular is the airline flight(s), React is the boat. It won't get you all the way there on its own.

Veratyr 11y ago

Google's Polymer [0] is probably closer to React than Angular. Angular's more of an application framework. Polymer's more of a Web Components[1] framework, which I think is closer to what React is doing. [0]: https://www.polymer-project.org/1.0/ https://www.polymer-project.org/1.0/ [1]: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Web_Components https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Web_Components

ohsnap 11y ago
Long term I can see web components/polymer shims being preferred over React, but not till the major browsers catch up. Like the parent says, Facebook is deeply invested in making React work and it really shows. Angular/Polymer always seems more r&d/experimental to me, which is great but not for people who want to do production work.
- auvrw 11y ago
  it's not either/or react.c : Activity/Fragment :: web component : View :: web : Android (???<_<)