5 ms·

>Imagine that shouting has no actual effect on performance Why would shouting have no effect on performance? People generally don't like being shouted at and o

>Imagine that shouting has no actual effect on performance Why would shouting have no effect on performance? People generally don't like being shouted at and often modify their behavior as a result. At the very least, a person being shouted at has to process the input. Think about it, the shout interrupts whatever context existed before the shout. Future actions are now based on a context where there was an interruption instead of a context where there was no interruption.

fauigerzigerk 11y ago
I guess that depends on the reason for poor performance. If it's lack of effort then I guess you are right. If it's lack of ability, shouting may not make a difference. If it's nervousness or lack of confidence, then shouting is probably going to make things worse.
- p4wnc6 11y ago
  More generally this is an empirical question. Does shouting cause improved performance? Just Googling, a lot of people don't think it does (me among them) and seem to have plausible reasons, but that's not an empirically decisive conclusion.
- Gibbon1 11y ago
  Threat of shouting likely increases the cognitive load leading to poor performance.
fucking_tragedy 11y ago
If we look at it from a behavioralist perspective, one that drops the addition of a introspective hypothesis ("People generally don't like being shouted at and often modify their behavior as a result", contexts) in favor of empirical evidence, we could simply test if shouting has any effect on performance.
- jsprogrammer 11y ago
  Behaviorialism is bunk. >we could simply test if shouting has any effect on performance Maybe we are using different definitions of performance, but what you want to test is essentially untestable. You'd have to be able to observe the exact same situation twice, once with shouting and once without. This is impossible.
  - tertius 11y ago
    To get 100% certainty, yes. But this isn't generally required to show close to certain probability. If the same is large enough (doesn't have to be very large) and controlled for possible bias, then the test should reveal the effect of the difference between sets.
    - jsprogrammer 11y ago
      Perhaps. I'd say that each individual situation is highly context dependent. I doubt the sergeant yells the exact same thing to everyone. The problem is really that "improved performance" can't really be defined (someone could attempt to), therefore there is no test to detect.
      - tertius 11y ago
        > "improved performance" can't really be defined If performance cannot be measured then the sergeant shouldn't be yelling in the first place. Performance is set at a very clear standard, if you underperform consistently and you then perform at the standard or above, you've improved your performance.
        jsprogrammer 11y ago
        I don't advocate for yelling. I'm only pointing out that yelling must have some effect on future outcomes. You may not be measuring all future outcomes, however.
vlehto 11y ago
In the military, there are three options. 1. You know you fucked up and you are going to get shouted at. 2. You did something forbidden and you might get shouted at if you get caught. 3. You did something OK, still got shouted at and now you don't know how you would do it better. You repeat what you did, get shouted at again. Until the asshole has ran out of steam. The shouting has absolutely no information value ever. What you describe might work for low motivation individuals. But they are hopelessly used to the shouting at the end of basic training. So the officers have to use threats instead.
- EliRivers 11y ago
  I used to get these tension headaches while waiting to be shouted at. Being shouted at was a relief - switch off, nod nod. Running around and around carrying something heavy after the shouting was relaxing; while I was doing that, I could switch off. There wouldn't be any shouting while I was running around and around carrying something heavy. I realised I was being conditioned to seek out being shouted at.

fauigerzigerk 11y ago

I guess that depends on the reason for poor performance. If it's lack of effort then I guess you are right. If it's lack of ability, shouting may not make a difference. If it's nervousness or lack of confidence, then shouting is probably going to make things worse.

p4wnc6 11y ago
More generally this is an empirical question. Does shouting cause improved performance? Just Googling, a lot of people don't think it does (me among them) and seem to have plausible reasons, but that's not an empirically decisive conclusion.
Gibbon1 11y ago
Threat of shouting likely increases the cognitive load leading to poor performance.

fucking_tragedy 11y ago

If we look at it from a behavioralist perspective, one that drops the addition of a introspective hypothesis ("People generally don't like being shouted at and often modify their behavior as a result", contexts) in favor of empirical evidence, we could simply test if shouting has any effect on performance.

jsprogrammer 11y ago
Behaviorialism is bunk. >we could simply test if shouting has any effect on performance Maybe we are using different definitions of performance, but what you want to test is essentially untestable. You'd have to be able to observe the exact same situation twice, once with shouting and once without. This is impossible.
- tertius 11y ago
  To get 100% certainty, yes. But this isn't generally required to show close to certain probability. If the same is large enough (doesn't have to be very large) and controlled for possible bias, then the test should reveal the effect of the difference between sets.
  - jsprogrammer 11y ago
    Perhaps. I'd say that each individual situation is highly context dependent. I doubt the sergeant yells the exact same thing to everyone. The problem is really that "improved performance" can't really be defined (someone could attempt to), therefore there is no test to detect.
    - tertius 11y ago
      > "improved performance" can't really be defined If performance cannot be measured then the sergeant shouldn't be yelling in the first place. Performance is set at a very clear standard, if you underperform consistently and you then perform at the standard or above, you've improved your performance.
      - jsprogrammer 11y ago
        I don't advocate for yelling. I'm only pointing out that yelling must have some effect on future outcomes. You may not be measuring all future outcomes, however.

vlehto 11y ago

In the military, there are three options. 1. You know you fucked up and you are going to get shouted at. 2. You did something forbidden and you might get shouted at if you get caught. 3. You did something OK, still got shouted at and now you don't know how you would do it better. You repeat what you did, get shouted at again. Until the asshole has ran out of steam. The shouting has absolutely no information value ever. What you describe might work for low motivation individuals. But they are hopelessly used to the shouting at the end of basic training. So the officers have to use threats instead.

EliRivers 11y ago
I used to get these tension headaches while waiting to be shouted at. Being shouted at was a relief - switch off, nod nod. Running around and around carrying something heavy after the shouting was relaxing; while I was doing that, I could switch off. There wouldn't be any shouting while I was running around and around carrying something heavy. I realised I was being conditioned to seek out being shouted at.