3 ms·

Drupal 8+ only hurts middle-class developer job growth.

2 points by georgeteller 11y ago

In light of Drupal 8 being released recently, it's probably worth saying this (again)... More and more functionality is being baked into Drupal core. Among other things, this means more website features can be implemented by just configuration and site-building, not necessarily writing custom code. You can now create even more complex and robust Drupal websites without ever having to write PHP, JavaScript, or other programming languages. Drupal 9 and later versions are only going to continue this trend. In the long run this kind of situation will pose sincere challenges for most Drupal developers both personally (i.e. becoming a marketable programmer) and professionally (i.e finding a long-term full-time job with health/retirement benefits). Will there be a lot of Drupal jobs that need site-builders and content curators? Or if you are an experienced enough programmer, will your skills be as needed if Drupal core can do it already? To put it another way, Drupal might simultaneously help in creating Drupal developers who can't program, while making the need for Drupal devs who can program less and less of a need (for Drupal jobs). When speaking of Drupal jobs, I speak of full-time jobs that include opportunities for advancement, long-term job security and solid health and retirement benefits. I'm not talking about a part-time internship or even a full-time position that has low pay and little to no benefits. This trend probably won't be an issue for Drupal developers near the top of the core commit pile working on the next version of Drupal core and/or those working for Acquia (the former and latter are usually the same thing), but those kinds of positions are very few and far between and most Drupal devs don't have the depth of knowledge/experience to earn a full-time position doing it. In summary, Drupal as an application and how Drupal is built (free via open-source) will only hurt long-term developer growth for the middle-class.

lollipop25 11y ago
Nope. Not entirely at least and here's why: - There are still companies who delegate site development to web development firms. These firms are normally comprised of people who do Drupal and other technologies. - If you are focused on Drupal, you're doing it wrong. One should never be stuck with a single technology. I know people who do Drupal with Laravel, Symfony, and even Spring. - Some sites are still sitting on D6 and need upgrading to D7. Some sites sitting on D7 and need maintenance and upgrades. - And if you know what's right, you don't jump in the "new technologies" bandwagon until a year or two after, when it matures. D8 was just released, there's bound to be bugs. - Most common modules that are being used for D7 development aren't even fully ported over to 8. That means you can't migrate, nor even port over custom code until those are fully fleshed out. And even after they get ported, they'd still have bugs. - Custom systems will have custom code. This means there is code that's maintained outside the Drupal core or modules. This means there will be developers that will handle them. If you think "middle class" developers are affected by this, then you're concept of "middle class" developer is not the right one. Also, if you think about it in the other way, D8 simplifies the work of a lower-ranked developer. Why create code when a module or a core feature already does that for you? Besides, a developer and a site builder are two totally different roles. They may meet at some common point, but their differences are quite extreme. And there will always be the need for custom code. Otherwise, we'd all Drupal sites would look the same.
- georgeteller 11y ago
  - Can you unpack your first bullet point a tad more? Are you saying that because these shops use other technologies (like say, Python, C++, etc...), they will be fine? But this still doesn't refute my point about Drupal in-and-of-itself. Actually, it might even buffer my point, if I understand it correctly. - But isn't this what so many Drupal developers do as well as Drupal shops (especially small to medium sized shops)? And, again, this point might even buffer my point about Drupal along not being advantageous. Plus, I don't think the Drupal community in general thinks this way (they are even cultish about Drupal actually) - True, as of now. This is where Drupal devs will still have work to do. But that sucks professionally speaking - who wants to just do that? How will that kind of work help you develop as a good programmer? But, all of that is not really relevant to my post anyway - I'm more focused on things ahead - far ahead - the future of jobs. In 5 years? 10 years? These jobs will be gone. - Ok. - See my 3rd bullet point response above. - Sure, but the future of Drupal actively works against that. My point is not that all of this is ending tomorrow, but it time Drupal's philosophy (get as much into core as possible) will eventually hurt programmers and their jobs (for those who stick with just Drupal). - I define a "good middle class" job as the following: long-term job security, real opportunities for growth in the company, good pay, healthcare benefits (including dental) and retirement benefits (like 401ks) etc. There are a lot of small to mid-sized Drupal shops who can't come close to this kind of job offer. They always seem stuck in virtual start-up mode. So, serious Drupal devs are forced to work for one of the big Drupal shops (and those kinds of shops are few and far between)

2 points by georgeteller 11y ago

lollipop25 11y ago

Nope. Not entirely at least and here's why: - There are still companies who delegate site development to web development firms. These firms are normally comprised of people who do Drupal and other technologies. - If you are focused on Drupal, you're doing it wrong. One should never be stuck with a single technology. I know people who do Drupal with Laravel, Symfony, and even Spring. - Some sites are still sitting on D6 and need upgrading to D7. Some sites sitting on D7 and need maintenance and upgrades. - And if you know what's right, you don't jump in the "new technologies" bandwagon until a year or two after, when it matures. D8 was just released, there's bound to be bugs. - Most common modules that are being used for D7 development aren't even fully ported over to 8. That means you can't migrate, nor even port over custom code until those are fully fleshed out. And even after they get ported, they'd still have bugs. - Custom systems will have custom code. This means there is code that's maintained outside the Drupal core or modules. This means there will be developers that will handle them. If you think "middle class" developers are affected by this, then you're concept of "middle class" developer is not the right one. Also, if you think about it in the other way, D8 simplifies the work of a lower-ranked developer. Why create code when a module or a core feature already does that for you? Besides, a developer and a site builder are two totally different roles. They may meet at some common point, but their differences are quite extreme. And there will always be the need for custom code. Otherwise, we'd all Drupal sites would look the same.

georgeteller 11y ago
- Can you unpack your first bullet point a tad more? Are you saying that because these shops use other technologies (like say, Python, C++, etc...), they will be fine? But this still doesn't refute my point about Drupal in-and-of-itself. Actually, it might even buffer my point, if I understand it correctly. - But isn't this what so many Drupal developers do as well as Drupal shops (especially small to medium sized shops)? And, again, this point might even buffer my point about Drupal along not being advantageous. Plus, I don't think the Drupal community in general thinks this way (they are even cultish about Drupal actually) - True, as of now. This is where Drupal devs will still have work to do. But that sucks professionally speaking - who wants to just do that? How will that kind of work help you develop as a good programmer? But, all of that is not really relevant to my post anyway - I'm more focused on things ahead - far ahead - the future of jobs. In 5 years? 10 years? These jobs will be gone. - Ok. - See my 3rd bullet point response above. - Sure, but the future of Drupal actively works against that. My point is not that all of this is ending tomorrow, but it time Drupal's philosophy (get as much into core as possible) will eventually hurt programmers and their jobs (for those who stick with just Drupal). - I define a "good middle class" job as the following: long-term job security, real opportunities for growth in the company, good pay, healthcare benefits (including dental) and retirement benefits (like 401ks) etc. There are a lot of small to mid-sized Drupal shops who can't come close to this kind of job offer. They always seem stuck in virtual start-up mode. So, serious Drupal devs are forced to work for one of the big Drupal shops (and those kinds of shops are few and far between)