8 ms·

Facebook changes how it enforces 'real name' policy in wake of criticism

48 points by bootload 11y ago

SwellJoe 11y ago
I feel like I've read this same damned article a half dozen times over the span of as many years. Facebook has conflicting goals: Knowing literally everything about their users so they can sell access to that data (indirectly, generally, in the form of targeted ads, etc.), and having people not completely hate them. They fiddle with their terms of service (particularly this one policy, which is most egregiously anti-consumer) every few months, when the noise gets loud enough that they can't ignore it, it lets a little steam out of the pressure to change, and they go back to the highly profitable business of being mildly evil. As with every change facebook has made to their real names policy, they've made it clear they are in control of your identity online. If you use a name that is not your legal name, they make you jump through hoops to satisfy Facebook's desire to know who you are. I'm not saying they can't do this; of course they can. But, it's time for people to stop letting them get away with the claim that the policy benefits anyone other than facebook. I know people who have had to jump through those hoops, even after the last round of "we're changing the real names policy, it's totally fine!" articles. People with abusive exes, trans folks, sex workers and entertainers for whom the line between "personal" and "professional" life is thin and could be dangerous for them to have it get too thin (like having their real name on social media), and folks who just prefer to use another name and are known as that name among all of their friends. Trans folks have been in front on protesting this because they have frequently experienced shame and fear at having their identity challenged, and facebook is doing it online on a massive scale. Probably every trans person has experienced having to show ID to prove they are male or female. They've experienced having to argue with family over what name they wish to use. They've experienced being incorrectly called "sir" or "ma'am" or "he" or "she", even after clarifying that they prefer something else. Facebook is being the asshole that keeps using the wrong pronouns/names/etc. despite being asked not to, and when challenged on it, demands to see ID to "prove it". Again, they can do whatever they want; they're a private entity with their own goals and desires. But, we don't have to buy any bullshit about why they're doing it.
- mtgx 11y ago
  My favorite Facebook reaction is everytime they get caught doing something what most consider "evil", they say it's just a "technical error" and that it will be fixed. Then two or three years later make that change the default for the whole service. It's just kind of funny to keep seeing this happen. They did it at least twice with the cookie that tracks you across the web even when you've signed out of Facebook, and they kept using that excuse that it's a technical error. Then when the EU privacy bodies actually called them out on it in Courts, their "whoops, we never intended to do that" excuse suddenly turned into "waaait a minute, we use that feature for security...and stuff! Why are you hurting your citizens, EU?!"
- zeveb 11y ago
  > Facebook is being the asshole that keeps using the wrong pronouns/names/etc. despite being asked not to, and when challenged on it, demands to see ID to "prove it". If you tell me to call you Lord Joseph, is it really so wrong for me to ask you for your credentials? If I refer to you as 'him,' not 'His Lordship,' am I really the one in the wrong?
  - SwellJoe 11y ago
    I've mentioned a situation, that many trans folks experience, where someone asks to be called by their preferred gender pronoun and the person they ask refuses to do so. And, I've mentioned that many trans folks find that kind of response hurtful. And, you've made a joke comparing that to someone wanting to be treated like royalty. Do you sincerely believe the two situations are comparable?
    - Torgo 11y ago
      "Lil Miss Hot Mess" is a stage name, and I am not obligated to recognize it. I actually find it not comparable at all to compare it to someone's gender-identified pronouns and perfectly applicable to what OP was saying.
      - SwellJoe 11y ago
reitanqild 11y ago
Yeah, so now people have to fill on a form and tell why they are in trouble. I see noooo problems with this. /s Re: real names as a deterrent against bullying, -look no further than HN and see that real names aren't really needed at all. In fact lots of real names places are way worse.
- striking 11y ago
  Real names just mean people are doxxed more often... which I interpret as an increase in bullying, rather than a decrease. It's somewhat true that anonymity is disinhibiting... but that's a good thing, because it leads to fresh and creative thinking. You'll get plenty of noise, but there'll be plenty of signal too.
  - RUG3Y 11y ago
    The problem with anonymity is "unacceptable" or "problematic" speech. I say, let everyone speak their mind freely, and anonymously. You'll get racists and radicals speaking their minds along with everyone else, and I don't have a problem with that.
    - pc86 11y ago
      Facebook is bad enough as it is. I can't imagine the cesspool it would become if comments no longer came from "John Doe" and instead come from "xXx blaze 1t 420 xXx"
      - reitanqild 11y ago
        Around here comments comes from the likes of reitanqild etc and still they are better than Facebook comments. Just saying.
      - TillE 11y ago
        Have you seen the Facebook comments embedded on various sites? If anything, they're worse than the alternatives. The theory that people are unwilling to put their name to abusive or awful comments seems compelling, but the evidence tends to contradict it. There are more than enough people who simply don't care.
jdp23 11y ago
They're not actually changing the policy: "On Facebook, we require people to use the name their friends and family know them by.... We’re firmly committed to this policy, and it is not changing." They're just changing the enforcement mechanisms. So while the changes seem positive (Lil Miss Hot Mess says some good things about them), they're just around the edges, not getting rid of the actual harmful policy.
- newscracker 11y ago
  Exactly. Facebook is being disingenuous by making minor changes that may not really help people who get affected. It does not seem to consider the proposed changes from various people and organizations (like EFF). Even without a person's "authentic" name, Facebook has so much information that most people willingly part with that it could still sell a lot of well targeted ads. It seems like there's something else sinister that has not been revealed all this while as to why Facebook continues to "stand by" this names policy. Or the people making the decisions are incompetent to understand and uncaring to do something positive. Or both.
  - s3r3nity 11y ago
    I don't think it's something sinister -- if you continuously base your conclusions in the hypothesis that Facebook is "evil" (whatever that means), then I can understand why you might feel that way. I see it as a smart product decision where the benefits outweigh the concerns of a vocal minority that project having to use your real name as this ludicrous sin, while at the same time saying that if you don't like a product you can just NOT use it. Why? I actually enjoy using FB infinitely more than Twitter/Myspace (years ago) because I see it as a network of people - not company profiles or shit like that. While they might layer on things like company pages or video content or other shit, the fundamental foundation of their product is the social graph, with people centered as the nodes. I don't give a shit about your screen name, and I don't want to have to try to remember it. Regardless if you agree/disagree, brand image does matter in the real world, and I think Facebook product folks know this.
    - 11y ago
ck2 11y ago
What about people who already had their name yanked? The tools shown don't seem to address that. My friend lost their common law name of like 40 years, no-one even knows who the heck their birthname is when facebook shows it.
bad_user 11y ago
There's only one change acceptable: stop requiring real names. Otherwise it's just PR.
- morgante 11y ago
  And thus begin the gradual descent into a MySpace/Twitter cesspool.
  - nailer 11y ago
    I generally find Twitter to have a better level of discourse than FB. That might be because of who I follow & block though.
  - forgottenpass 11y ago
    If you have a problem with (pseudo)anonymous users, how hard is it to not the people you don't know? Also, Facebook is already a cesspool.
totony 11y ago
They don't want to be the next myspace. Keeping it more formal (with real names) seems like a reasonable idea
tyingq 11y ago
My wife created Facebook profiles for my dog and her fictional alter ego years ago. She logs in an posts things as them on a semi-regular basis. The profile pictures are a dog, and a comic book character. The profile info similarly is very up front about what the ids are. Not sure what the enforcement policy was or is, but I can say that it isn't real comprehensive. Maybe they only act when something is flagged by other users?
- aikah 11y ago
  Yeah, given the crazy amount of fake profiles on Facebook, I'm not sure what the big deal is, maybe it's targeted specifically at US users, because this policy never affected me. I will never give Facebook my real name. Professionally Facebook is useless and my friends know who I am. Facebook has my phone number and it's already too much information.
- Rotten194 11y ago
  Facebook only goes after profiles that are flagged by users. Nobody cares enough to flag your dog, but there are plenty of homophobic / transphobic assholes who flag LGBT people.
uncletaco 11y ago
TL;DR: screw facebook's name policies. I have an unusual last name that get flagged by FB as fake. Five years ago I sent them proof of my name and they changed it, but then locked my ability to edit the change (they added my middle name, I just wanted first name last name). Its pretty annoying, and when my parents and other family members started making facebook accounts they often had to do First Name Middle Name because Facebook's name changing policies are arcane and they make it extremely inconvenient to contact them. My mother, who was flagged by facebook and then reenabled, recently got remarried and wanted to take her husband's last name, but Facebook won't let her make the change.
massysett 11y ago
I'm amazed that Facebook is so powerful that they can have a policy like this and those aggrieved complain rather than just saying "screw Facebook." I understand why people would not want to prove their identity to Facebook...but it's not like people have some sort of right to use Facebook.
- ljk 11y ago
  actually i feel like there's a lot of people who stopped using fb eventually and they might be the "silent majority" personally i don't upload anything to fb. It's only a messaging platform for me(if i don't upload anything there's nothing to be "stolen")
axelfreeman 11y ago
What would be usefull for both sides? Facebook should save the real name BUT NOT DISPLAY it. You can display whatever you want. Fake name or what you like. Your friend can find you (if they know your real name) with search but nobody else can see your real name.

48 points by bootload 11y ago

I feel like I've read this same damned article a half dozen times over the span of as many years. Facebook has conflicting goals: Knowing literally everything about their users so they can sell access to that data (indirectly, generally, in the form of targeted ads, etc.), and having people not completely hate them. They fiddle with their terms of service (particularly this one policy, which is most egregiously anti-consumer) every few months, when the noise gets loud enough that they can't ignore it, it lets a little steam out of the pressure to change, and they go back to the highly profitable business of being mildly evil. As with every change facebook has made to their real names policy, they've made it clear they are in control of your identity online. If you use a name that is not your legal name, they make you jump through hoops to satisfy Facebook's desire to know who you are. I'm not saying they can't do this; of course they can. But, it's time for people to stop letting them get away with the claim that the policy benefits anyone other than facebook. I know people who have had to jump through those hoops, even after the last round of "we're changing the real names policy, it's totally fine!" articles. People with abusive exes, trans folks, sex workers and entertainers for whom the line between "personal" and "professional" life is thin and could be dangerous for them to have it get too thin (like having their real name on social media), and folks who just prefer to use another name and are known as that name among all of their friends. Trans folks have been in front on protesting this because they have frequently experienced shame and fear at having their identity challenged, and facebook is doing it online on a massive scale. Probably every trans person has experienced having to show ID to prove they are male or female. They've experienced having to argue with family over what name they wish to use. They've experienced being incorrectly called "sir" or "ma'am" or "he" or "she", even after clarifying that they prefer something else. Facebook is being the asshole that keeps using the wrong pronouns/names/etc. despite being asked not to, and when challenged on it, demands to see ID to "prove it". Again, they can do whatever they want; they're a private entity with their own goals and desires. But, we don't have to buy any bullshit about why they're doing it.

mtgx 11y ago
My favorite Facebook reaction is everytime they get caught doing something what most consider "evil", they say it's just a "technical error" and that it will be fixed. Then two or three years later make that change the default for the whole service. It's just kind of funny to keep seeing this happen. They did it at least twice with the cookie that tracks you across the web even when you've signed out of Facebook, and they kept using that excuse that it's a technical error. Then when the EU privacy bodies actually called them out on it in Courts, their "whoops, we never intended to do that" excuse suddenly turned into "waaait a minute, we use that feature for security...and stuff! Why are you hurting your citizens, EU?!"
zeveb 11y ago
> Facebook is being the asshole that keeps using the wrong pronouns/names/etc. despite being asked not to, and when challenged on it, demands to see ID to "prove it". If you tell me to call you Lord Joseph, is it really so wrong for me to ask you for your credentials? If I refer to you as 'him,' not 'His Lordship,' am I really the one in the wrong?
- SwellJoe 11y ago
  I've mentioned a situation, that many trans folks experience, where someone asks to be called by their preferred gender pronoun and the person they ask refuses to do so. And, I've mentioned that many trans folks find that kind of response hurtful. And, you've made a joke comparing that to someone wanting to be treated like royalty. Do you sincerely believe the two situations are comparable?
  - Torgo 11y ago
    "Lil Miss Hot Mess" is a stage name, and I am not obligated to recognize it. I actually find it not comparable at all to compare it to someone's gender-identified pronouns and perfectly applicable to what OP was saying.
    - SwellJoe 11y ago

reitanqild 11y ago

Yeah, so now people have to fill on a form and tell why they are in trouble. I see noooo problems with this. /s Re: real names as a deterrent against bullying, -look no further than HN and see that real names aren't really needed at all. In fact lots of real names places are way worse.

striking 11y ago
Real names just mean people are doxxed more often... which I interpret as an increase in bullying, rather than a decrease. It's somewhat true that anonymity is disinhibiting... but that's a good thing, because it leads to fresh and creative thinking. You'll get plenty of noise, but there'll be plenty of signal too.
- RUG3Y 11y ago
  The problem with anonymity is "unacceptable" or "problematic" speech. I say, let everyone speak their mind freely, and anonymously. You'll get racists and radicals speaking their minds along with everyone else, and I don't have a problem with that.
  - pc86 11y ago
    Facebook is bad enough as it is. I can't imagine the cesspool it would become if comments no longer came from "John Doe" and instead come from "xXx blaze 1t 420 xXx"
    - reitanqild 11y ago
      Around here comments comes from the likes of reitanqild etc and still they are better than Facebook comments. Just saying.
    - TillE 11y ago
      Have you seen the Facebook comments embedded on various sites? If anything, they're worse than the alternatives. The theory that people are unwilling to put their name to abusive or awful comments seems compelling, but the evidence tends to contradict it. There are more than enough people who simply don't care.

jdp23 11y ago

They're not actually changing the policy: "On Facebook, we require people to use the name their friends and family know them by.... We’re firmly committed to this policy, and it is not changing." They're just changing the enforcement mechanisms. So while the changes seem positive (Lil Miss Hot Mess says some good things about them), they're just around the edges, not getting rid of the actual harmful policy.

newscracker 11y ago
Exactly. Facebook is being disingenuous by making minor changes that may not really help people who get affected. It does not seem to consider the proposed changes from various people and organizations (like EFF). Even without a person's "authentic" name, Facebook has so much information that most people willingly part with that it could still sell a lot of well targeted ads. It seems like there's something else sinister that has not been revealed all this while as to why Facebook continues to "stand by" this names policy. Or the people making the decisions are incompetent to understand and uncaring to do something positive. Or both.
- s3r3nity 11y ago
  I don't think it's something sinister -- if you continuously base your conclusions in the hypothesis that Facebook is "evil" (whatever that means), then I can understand why you might feel that way. I see it as a smart product decision where the benefits outweigh the concerns of a vocal minority that project having to use your real name as this ludicrous sin, while at the same time saying that if you don't like a product you can just NOT use it. Why? I actually enjoy using FB infinitely more than Twitter/Myspace (years ago) because I see it as a network of people - not company profiles or shit like that. While they might layer on things like company pages or video content or other shit, the fundamental foundation of their product is the social graph, with people centered as the nodes. I don't give a shit about your screen name, and I don't want to have to try to remember it. Regardless if you agree/disagree, brand image does matter in the real world, and I think Facebook product folks know this.
  - 11y ago

ck2 11y ago

What about people who already had their name yanked? The tools shown don't seem to address that. My friend lost their common law name of like 40 years, no-one even knows who the heck their birthname is when facebook shows it.

bad_user 11y ago

There's only one change acceptable: stop requiring real names. Otherwise it's just PR.

morgante 11y ago
And thus begin the gradual descent into a MySpace/Twitter cesspool.
- nailer 11y ago
  I generally find Twitter to have a better level of discourse than FB. That might be because of who I follow & block though.
- forgottenpass 11y ago
  If you have a problem with (pseudo)anonymous users, how hard is it to not the people you don't know? Also, Facebook is already a cesspool.

totony 11y ago

They don't want to be the next myspace. Keeping it more formal (with real names) seems like a reasonable idea

tyingq 11y ago

My wife created Facebook profiles for my dog and her fictional alter ego years ago. She logs in an posts things as them on a semi-regular basis. The profile pictures are a dog, and a comic book character. The profile info similarly is very up front about what the ids are. Not sure what the enforcement policy was or is, but I can say that it isn't real comprehensive. Maybe they only act when something is flagged by other users?

aikah 11y ago
Yeah, given the crazy amount of fake profiles on Facebook, I'm not sure what the big deal is, maybe it's targeted specifically at US users, because this policy never affected me. I will never give Facebook my real name. Professionally Facebook is useless and my friends know who I am. Facebook has my phone number and it's already too much information.
Rotten194 11y ago
Facebook only goes after profiles that are flagged by users. Nobody cares enough to flag your dog, but there are plenty of homophobic / transphobic assholes who flag LGBT people.

uncletaco 11y ago

TL;DR: screw facebook's name policies. I have an unusual last name that get flagged by FB as fake. Five years ago I sent them proof of my name and they changed it, but then locked my ability to edit the change (they added my middle name, I just wanted first name last name). Its pretty annoying, and when my parents and other family members started making facebook accounts they often had to do First Name Middle Name because Facebook's name changing policies are arcane and they make it extremely inconvenient to contact them. My mother, who was flagged by facebook and then reenabled, recently got remarried and wanted to take her husband's last name, but Facebook won't let her make the change.

massysett 11y ago

I'm amazed that Facebook is so powerful that they can have a policy like this and those aggrieved complain rather than just saying "screw Facebook." I understand why people would not want to prove their identity to Facebook...but it's not like people have some sort of right to use Facebook.

ljk 11y ago
actually i feel like there's a lot of people who stopped using fb eventually and they might be the "silent majority" personally i don't upload anything to fb. It's only a messaging platform for me(if i don't upload anything there's nothing to be "stolen")

axelfreeman 11y ago

What would be usefull for both sides? Facebook should save the real name BUT NOT DISPLAY it. You can display whatever you want. Fake name or what you like. Your friend can find you (if they know your real name) with search but nobody else can see your real name.