6 ms·

I particularly like the comments to that article stating that only "liberals" believe the water supply is heaving with lead. The ridiculous political bun-fight

I particularly like the comments to that article stating that only "liberals" believe the water supply is heaving with lead. The ridiculous political bun-fight infects everything, it seems. It's a mental disease.

ionforce 11y ago
I'm curious what excuse the anti-liberals come up with once their children are diagnosed with lead.
- fixermark 11y ago
  They won't have to; they don't live in Flint. Flint is the 10th most liberal city in America by election results, according to https://alt.coxnewsweb.com/statesman/metro/081205libs.pdf https://alt.coxnewsweb.com/statesman/metro/081205libs.pdf.
- topspin 11y ago
  Well I suppose if there were an "anti-liberal" that hadn't yet evacuated Flint they would blame the exclusively Democrat government for their obviously malfaisant administration of the Flint water supply.
- flubert 11y ago
  Aren't places like Flint and Detroit pretty much poster children of progressive thought? I think anti-liberal people use them as case studies to attract converts, as in, look what you get if you have one-party Democratic rule for 50 years and strong unions, and other progressive notions.
  - yawgmoth 11y ago
    No way - those cities are a great example of the conservative, blue collar Democrat. Guns and unions!
  - babygoat 11y ago
    Where on earth did you get that idea?
    - ZoeZoeBee 11y ago
      Voting Records. Do you believe something else?
      - babygoat 11y ago
        Yeah, I guess since you think progressive thought is the same as voting for Democrats, try Seattle, Portland, SF, LA, Hawaii, Minnesota, Boston, New York... Neat how you ignored all of the places that people love.
        ZoeZoeBee 11y ago
        Except the subject was and is Flint, if you think LA is a shining example of anything I've got news for you... Bah along
    - flubert 11y ago
      I suppose we're making the no-true-progressive argument here? Whether or not that is accurate, anti-progressives use Detroit as an example: https://www.google.com/#q=detroit+progressivism https://www.google.com/#q=detroit+progressivism
      - babygoat 11y ago
        Not at all, and I don't love hearing what anti-progressives have to say so I'm not going to wade through that google search. I'm just saying that one reason those cities have a higher turnout for Democrats is because a lot of them are (or were) in labor unions.
        flubert 11y ago
        Are you saying that those union members wouldn't self-identify as progressive? Or that progressivism has moved beyond endorsing labor unions? Or something else?
  - pm24601 11y ago
    Flint has been devastated like Detroit by Republican governors and Republican* trade policies that export jobs. * And unfortunately NAFTA ( signed by Clinton ) Thank god Obama saved the automobile industry in 2009
    - ZoeZoeBee 11y ago
      Right.... You do know that Bush saved the auto and Obama just kept it rolling, never mind "Republican Governors" like Granholm in office before during and after "Obama saved" the auto industry. What strain did you happen upon?
anon1385 11y ago
The toxicity of lead is actually a longstanding political argument in the US. Lobbying against lead regulation was one of the original motivations for the development of modern american libertarianism. Even fairly recently libertarian organisations like the Cato Institute have been fighting against regulation of lead and against compensation for those poisoned. When the topic of lead comes up on HN you often get comments arguing that it isn't really as toxic as claimed.
- SideburnsOfDoom 11y ago
  > Even fairly recently libertarian organisations like the Cato Institute have been fighting against regulation of lead and against compensation for those poisoned. That's shocking and tragically sad.
  - fixermark 11y ago
    Oh yes. The history of the Ethyl Corporation and Dr. Clair Patterson is fascinating, right up there with Rachel Carson and "Silent Spring." There's a very disturbing correlative graph between the banning of anti-knock lead additives from gasoline and the drop in violent crime rates in the United States. Correlation does not imply causation, but in this case it points feverishly at causation while wiggling its eyebrows and nodding its head suggestively.
    - LordKano 11y ago
      Freakonomics suggested that the crime drop the US experienced in the 1990s was due to Roe v Wade but there is more evidence that it was because of the society-wide drop in lead exposure we experienced at the same time period.
- cryoshon 11y ago
  But... to argue lead is nontoxic is counterfactual!
  - fixermark 11y ago
phkahler 11y ago
>> I particularly like the comments to that article stating that only "liberals" believe the water supply is heaving with lead. In this case it's a poor area, and IIRC children of welfare recipients are required to have certain tests every year or two. So at some point all they had to do was look at existing data to see the lead levels in the kids went up dramatically after the change. Easiest study ever.

ionforce 11y ago

I'm curious what excuse the anti-liberals come up with once their children are diagnosed with lead.

fixermark 11y ago
They won't have to; they don't live in Flint. Flint is the 10th most liberal city in America by election results, according to https://alt.coxnewsweb.com/statesman/metro/081205libs.pdf https://alt.coxnewsweb.com/statesman/metro/081205libs.pdf.
topspin 11y ago
Well I suppose if there were an "anti-liberal" that hadn't yet evacuated Flint they would blame the exclusively Democrat government for their obviously malfaisant administration of the Flint water supply.
flubert 11y ago
Aren't places like Flint and Detroit pretty much poster children of progressive thought? I think anti-liberal people use them as case studies to attract converts, as in, look what you get if you have one-party Democratic rule for 50 years and strong unions, and other progressive notions.
- yawgmoth 11y ago
  No way - those cities are a great example of the conservative, blue collar Democrat. Guns and unions!
- babygoat 11y ago
  Where on earth did you get that idea?
  - ZoeZoeBee 11y ago
    Voting Records. Do you believe something else?
    - babygoat 11y ago
      Yeah, I guess since you think progressive thought is the same as voting for Democrats, try Seattle, Portland, SF, LA, Hawaii, Minnesota, Boston, New York... Neat how you ignored all of the places that people love.
      - ZoeZoeBee 11y ago
        Except the subject was and is Flint, if you think LA is a shining example of anything I've got news for you... Bah along
  - flubert 11y ago
    I suppose we're making the no-true-progressive argument here? Whether or not that is accurate, anti-progressives use Detroit as an example: https://www.google.com/#q=detroit+progressivism https://www.google.com/#q=detroit+progressivism
    - babygoat 11y ago
      Not at all, and I don't love hearing what anti-progressives have to say so I'm not going to wade through that google search. I'm just saying that one reason those cities have a higher turnout for Democrats is because a lot of them are (or were) in labor unions.
      - flubert 11y ago
        Are you saying that those union members wouldn't self-identify as progressive? Or that progressivism has moved beyond endorsing labor unions? Or something else?
- pm24601 11y ago
  Flint has been devastated like Detroit by Republican governors and Republican* trade policies that export jobs. * And unfortunately NAFTA ( signed by Clinton ) Thank god Obama saved the automobile industry in 2009
  - ZoeZoeBee 11y ago
    Right.... You do know that Bush saved the auto and Obama just kept it rolling, never mind "Republican Governors" like Granholm in office before during and after "Obama saved" the auto industry. What strain did you happen upon?

anon1385 11y ago

The toxicity of lead is actually a longstanding political argument in the US. Lobbying against lead regulation was one of the original motivations for the development of modern american libertarianism. Even fairly recently libertarian organisations like the Cato Institute have been fighting against regulation of lead and against compensation for those poisoned. When the topic of lead comes up on HN you often get comments arguing that it isn't really as toxic as claimed.

SideburnsOfDoom 11y ago
> Even fairly recently libertarian organisations like the Cato Institute have been fighting against regulation of lead and against compensation for those poisoned. That's shocking and tragically sad.
- fixermark 11y ago
  Oh yes. The history of the Ethyl Corporation and Dr. Clair Patterson is fascinating, right up there with Rachel Carson and "Silent Spring." There's a very disturbing correlative graph between the banning of anti-knock lead additives from gasoline and the drop in violent crime rates in the United States. Correlation does not imply causation, but in this case it points feverishly at causation while wiggling its eyebrows and nodding its head suggestively.
  - LordKano 11y ago
    Freakonomics suggested that the crime drop the US experienced in the 1990s was due to Roe v Wade but there is more evidence that it was because of the society-wide drop in lead exposure we experienced at the same time period.
cryoshon 11y ago
But... to argue lead is nontoxic is counterfactual!
- fixermark 11y ago

phkahler 11y ago

>> I particularly like the comments to that article stating that only "liberals" believe the water supply is heaving with lead. In this case it's a poor area, and IIRC children of welfare recipients are required to have certain tests every year or two. So at some point all they had to do was look at existing data to see the lead levels in the kids went up dramatically after the change. Easiest study ever.