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> My understanding is that a doctor's first job is to be risk averse. That's why they shy away from bleeding edge research and knowledge, and choose instead to

by epalmer 11y ago

> My understanding is that a doctor's first job is to be risk averse. That's why they shy away from bleeding edge research and knowledge, and choose instead to rely on proven ways I think it is more a matter of relying on what other doctors are doing and as well what they think their patients will tolerate. I asked my cardiologist and primary care doctor before going on a well formulated low carb diet. they were both in favor of it but noted that they don't recommend these types of approaches, not because they don't work, but because people don't tend to stick with it. In 3 months I lost 30 lbs (got a way to go still). My primary said that I have not indication now of prediabetes while I did prior to my diet. For me I decided to take control of what I can in my health. Keep in mind your MMV.

TeMPOraL 11y ago
> For me I decided to take control of what I can in my health. But you did that cooperating with your doctors, which is how it should look. The problem with people taking charge of their own health is usually that they completely reject medical professionals altogether because they "know better". It makes exactly as much sense as when a manager decides not to hire a programmer, but instead buys himself a JavaScript book, because "how hard can this programming stuff be anyway?", or "the programming establishment still uses this old Ruby stuff, they don't know JavaScript is the state-of-the art solution!". Knowing better than your doctor can lead to tragic consequences. Since we're in story-sharing mode: just last week my brother's friends saved the life of a guy who was after surgery that involved installation of stents, but for some reason didn't take the prescribed anticoagulants - he just kept the prescriptions stored in his bag and went happy about his life. He slipped up and admitted to taking no drugs on a checkup in the hospital. According to the doctor who was leading his case, he was hours from dying when they figured out what's going on.
- dualogy 11y ago
  > It makes exactly as much sense as when a manager decides not to hire a programmer, but instead buys himself a JavaScript book, because "how hard can this programming stuff be anyway?" Hey, worked out splendidly for Derek Sivers!
- kefka 11y ago
  You can count me in on the group that "is not taking the drugs proscribed by the doctor". Type 2 diabetic, and on my way back out of that disease. And I made that informed choice. Statins do not work well with my family history. That was disregarded by doctor. I also said I wanted to try a diet of low/no carbs and testing vigorously in a term called "eating to the meter". Instead proscribed Metformin. Also doc quoted wrong safe blood glucose limits, higher than that of where damage forms. Following his advice would guarantee me with diabetic neuropathy. Now I wanted to see proof that what I asserted was safer. https://mega.nz/#!BgMEzbbB!hZtA0B64Xm-0XRr-lWlVD12zzTmJ2Wix2kES6f0urQM https://mega.nz/#!BgMEzbbB!hZtA0B64Xm-0XRr-lWlVD12zzTmJ2Wix2... Seems to work for me.
  - ejstronge 11y ago
    I want to comment on the version of your comment that you edited. You stated that you believe a blood glucose of 140 mg/dl would cause diabetic neuropathy whereas your GP quoted a blood glucose of 150 mg/dl as causative of diabetic neuropathy. It doesn't seem like things are as starkly different as that. Patients usually develop diabetic neuropathy over many years, so it's not clear that your GP would have 'guaranteed you diabetic neuropathy'.
    - kefka 11y ago
      Weird. I've edited no posts at least in the last week or so.(this post edited to add lines to show separation between studies.) And yes, I cite 140mg/dL causes neural damage and shows itself as diabetic neuropathy. Proof. _____________________________________ >Diabetic Retinopathy Develops at "Prediabetic" Blood Sugar Levels NIH News: Diabetic Retinopathy Occurs in Pre-Diabetes. http://www.nih.gov/news/pr/jun2005/niddk-12.htm http://www.nih.gov/news/pr/jun2005/niddk-12.htm Relation between fasting glucose and retinopathy for diagnosis of diabetes: three population-based cross-sectional studies Wong TY, et al Lancet 2008; 371: 736-743. Association of A1C and Fasting Plasma Glucose Levels With Diabetic Retinopathy Prevalence in the U.S. Population: Implications for diabetes diagnostic thresholds Yiling J. Cheng et al. Diabetes Care November 2009 vol. 32 no. 11 2027-2032. doi: 10.2337/dc09-0440 Glycemic Thresholds for Diabetes-Specific Retinopathy: Implications for Diagnostic Criteria for Diabetes:The DETECT-2 Collaboration Writing group. Stephen Colagiuri et al. Diabetes Care Published online before print October 26, 2010, doi: 10.2337/dc10-1206 Hemoglobin A1c and Fasting Plasma Glucose Levels as Predictors of Retinopathy at 10 Years: The French DESIR Study. Massin P. et al. Arch Ophthalmol.2011 Feb;129(2):188-195. _____________________________________ > Beta Cell Destruction Begins at 2-hr OGTT Test Readings Over 100 mg/dl (5.6 mmol/L Beta-cell dysfunction and glucose intolerance: results from the San Antonio metabolism (SAM) study. Gastaldelli A; Ferrannini E; Miyazaki Y; Matsuda M; De Fronzo RA;Diabetologia 2004 Jan;47(1):31-9) _____________________________________ >Beta Cells Die Off in People Whose Fasting Blood Sugar is Over 110 mg/dl (6.1 mmol/L) Beta-cell deficit and increased beta-cell apoptosis in humans with type 2 diabetes. Butler AE, Janson J, Bonner-Weir S, Ritzel R, Rizza RA, Butler PC.Diabetes. 2003;52:102-110. _____________________________________ >Blood Sugars Over 150 mg/dl (8.3 mmol/L) Kill Transplanted Beta Cells in Mice ß-Cell Death and Mass in Syngeneically Transplanted Islets Exposed to Short- and Long-Term Hyperglycemia. Montserrat Biarnés, Marta Montolio, Victor Nacher, Mercè Raurell, Joan Soler, and Eduard Montanya. Diabetes 51:66-72, 2002 _____________________________________ >Prolonged Exposure to Blood Sugars Over 140 mg/dl (7.8 mmol/L) Kills Human Beta Cells Determinants of glucose toxicity and its reversibility in pancreatic islet Beta-cell line, HIT-T15.Catherine E. Gleason, Michael Gonzalez, Jamie S. Harmon, and R. Paul Robertson.Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 279: E997-E1002, 2000. _____________________________________ >One Hour OGTT Result over 155 mg/dl(8.6 mmol/L) Correlates with Markers for Cardiovascular Disease Inflammation markers and metabolic characteristics of subjects with one-hour plasma glucose levels. Gianluca Bardini et al. Diabetes Care Published online before print November 16, 2009, doi: 10.2337/dc09-134 Edited: added lines for clarity between studies.

by epalmer 11y ago

TeMPOraL 11y ago

> For me I decided to take control of what I can in my health. But you did that cooperating with your doctors, which is how it should look. The problem with people taking charge of their own health is usually that they completely reject medical professionals altogether because they "know better". It makes exactly as much sense as when a manager decides not to hire a programmer, but instead buys himself a JavaScript book, because "how hard can this programming stuff be anyway?", or "the programming establishment still uses this old Ruby stuff, they don't know JavaScript is the state-of-the art solution!". Knowing better than your doctor can lead to tragic consequences. Since we're in story-sharing mode: just last week my brother's friends saved the life of a guy who was after surgery that involved installation of stents, but for some reason didn't take the prescribed anticoagulants - he just kept the prescriptions stored in his bag and went happy about his life. He slipped up and admitted to taking no drugs on a checkup in the hospital. According to the doctor who was leading his case, he was hours from dying when they figured out what's going on.

dualogy 11y ago
> It makes exactly as much sense as when a manager decides not to hire a programmer, but instead buys himself a JavaScript book, because "how hard can this programming stuff be anyway?" Hey, worked out splendidly for Derek Sivers!
kefka 11y ago
You can count me in on the group that "is not taking the drugs proscribed by the doctor". Type 2 diabetic, and on my way back out of that disease. And I made that informed choice. Statins do not work well with my family history. That was disregarded by doctor. I also said I wanted to try a diet of low/no carbs and testing vigorously in a term called "eating to the meter". Instead proscribed Metformin. Also doc quoted wrong safe blood glucose limits, higher than that of where damage forms. Following his advice would guarantee me with diabetic neuropathy. Now I wanted to see proof that what I asserted was safer. https://mega.nz/#!BgMEzbbB!hZtA0B64Xm-0XRr-lWlVD12zzTmJ2Wix2kES6f0urQM https://mega.nz/#!BgMEzbbB!hZtA0B64Xm-0XRr-lWlVD12zzTmJ2Wix2... Seems to work for me.
- ejstronge 11y ago
  I want to comment on the version of your comment that you edited. You stated that you believe a blood glucose of 140 mg/dl would cause diabetic neuropathy whereas your GP quoted a blood glucose of 150 mg/dl as causative of diabetic neuropathy. It doesn't seem like things are as starkly different as that. Patients usually develop diabetic neuropathy over many years, so it's not clear that your GP would have 'guaranteed you diabetic neuropathy'.
  - kefka 11y ago
    Weird. I've edited no posts at least in the last week or so.(this post edited to add lines to show separation between studies.) And yes, I cite 140mg/dL causes neural damage and shows itself as diabetic neuropathy. Proof. _____________________________________ >Diabetic Retinopathy Develops at "Prediabetic" Blood Sugar Levels NIH News: Diabetic Retinopathy Occurs in Pre-Diabetes. http://www.nih.gov/news/pr/jun2005/niddk-12.htm http://www.nih.gov/news/pr/jun2005/niddk-12.htm Relation between fasting glucose and retinopathy for diagnosis of diabetes: three population-based cross-sectional studies Wong TY, et al Lancet 2008; 371: 736-743. Association of A1C and Fasting Plasma Glucose Levels With Diabetic Retinopathy Prevalence in the U.S. Population: Implications for diabetes diagnostic thresholds Yiling J. Cheng et al. Diabetes Care November 2009 vol. 32 no. 11 2027-2032. doi: 10.2337/dc09-0440 Glycemic Thresholds for Diabetes-Specific Retinopathy: Implications for Diagnostic Criteria for Diabetes:The DETECT-2 Collaboration Writing group. Stephen Colagiuri et al. Diabetes Care Published online before print October 26, 2010, doi: 10.2337/dc10-1206 Hemoglobin A1c and Fasting Plasma Glucose Levels as Predictors of Retinopathy at 10 Years: The French DESIR Study. Massin P. et al. Arch Ophthalmol.2011 Feb;129(2):188-195. _____________________________________ > Beta Cell Destruction Begins at 2-hr OGTT Test Readings Over 100 mg/dl (5.6 mmol/L Beta-cell dysfunction and glucose intolerance: results from the San Antonio metabolism (SAM) study. Gastaldelli A; Ferrannini E; Miyazaki Y; Matsuda M; De Fronzo RA;Diabetologia 2004 Jan;47(1):31-9) _____________________________________ >Beta Cells Die Off in People Whose Fasting Blood Sugar is Over 110 mg/dl (6.1 mmol/L) Beta-cell deficit and increased beta-cell apoptosis in humans with type 2 diabetes. Butler AE, Janson J, Bonner-Weir S, Ritzel R, Rizza RA, Butler PC.Diabetes. 2003;52:102-110. _____________________________________ >Blood Sugars Over 150 mg/dl (8.3 mmol/L) Kill Transplanted Beta Cells in Mice ß-Cell Death and Mass in Syngeneically Transplanted Islets Exposed to Short- and Long-Term Hyperglycemia. Montserrat Biarnés, Marta Montolio, Victor Nacher, Mercè Raurell, Joan Soler, and Eduard Montanya. Diabetes 51:66-72, 2002 _____________________________________ >Prolonged Exposure to Blood Sugars Over 140 mg/dl (7.8 mmol/L) Kills Human Beta Cells Determinants of glucose toxicity and its reversibility in pancreatic islet Beta-cell line, HIT-T15.Catherine E. Gleason, Michael Gonzalez, Jamie S. Harmon, and R. Paul Robertson.Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 279: E997-E1002, 2000. _____________________________________ >One Hour OGTT Result over 155 mg/dl(8.6 mmol/L) Correlates with Markers for Cardiovascular Disease Inflammation markers and metabolic characteristics of subjects with one-hour plasma glucose levels. Gianluca Bardini et al. Diabetes Care Published online before print November 16, 2009, doi: 10.2337/dc09-134 Edited: added lines for clarity between studies.